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PS. Memorial never gentrified, it's as white as it's always been. And to clarify, Memorial has two private Catholic High schools, One Catholic Lite High School and a rather large handful of private elementry and middle schools.
Back in the late 90's, MCM was in the same boat as Sharpstown today.
According to the school finder (http://www.diogh.org/SchoolPages/schoolpages-new/houstonschools-NEW.htm - broken link) on the Archdiocese's website, Duchesne Academy is the only secondary school in the Villages and it's only for girls. If you bring up St. Thomas High School for boys, it's too far from the Villages. St. Agnes and Strake Jesuit are next to each other and serve girls and boys respectively.
One thing you are over looking is the public schools system. This is why people make the jump over Sharpstown and head out to Sugarland or Katy or points north. An old , 250ish priced home is not really the price point that people who can afford private tuition buy. I know some sacrifice and do that for private, but they're not the majority, but for the minority there're safer neighborhoods to choose from to go that route. And they do, this is Sharpstowns downfall. When Sharpstown High School has 3.57% white population, its going to be a long road.
An old house and private tuition vs a new,big house and free school is a no brainer to most lower-uppers and transfers. Most middle to upper middle can't afford the arm and leg it cost to send their brood to private schools all the way through. The Villages/Memorial has SBISD, a very desired public school district that keep property values high. SO, besides having Kinkaid, Duchense and a 1-3 mile drive to Regis, St. Thomas, Awty, Alexander Smith, School fo the Woods, The New Village School High School (some of which are in Spring Valley which is considered part of Memorial) and a plethera of Elem and middle privates, they have an excellent public school system with two extremely highly rated High Schools. People even make the haul out to Strake and St. Agnes.
The places that are changing over slowly are in close proximity to downtown and are attracting wealthy singles or young couples. Once a family comes into play, they either go private or move to a good district. This is why the xburbs are so popular. Sharpstown is just far enough away from downtown for those who are willing to stake claim to neighborhoods and change them. Families are out by the Beltway and beyond, and most are looking for good/safe public schools.
re: MCM. It has places like Bunker Hill and Frostwood behind it. Piney Point/Hedwig just to the East of it, and the family neighborhoods of Wilchester to the west of it. All very upper to upper middle class. That's why it pulled through after the post 80's bust. And it never got the rep of being dangerous or in a dangerous area. Run down yes, in a ghetto no.
Sharptown Mall nor the neighborhoods doesn't have supporting neighborhoods all around it.
Good luck to you though. I would love to see all shady parts of Houston pull out of the crap they're in. But trying to compare Sharpstown to Memorial is way off base. I guess that's my major point of getting involved in this conversation.
Peace Out.
Last edited by EasilyAmused; 03-28-2008 at 07:10 AM..
So what about the people who decide to live closer to Strake and St. Agnes which happen to be - guess where? Sharpstown. Some people can afford private tuition without being able to afford a house in Memorial. For that matter, I know a woman who lives in an apartment in Clear Lake with her daughter who goes to school at Incarnate Word downtown by the ballpark.
Some might also want to live in a less valuable house for which they would pay less in taxes, when they're thinking about staying put for a long time/permanently to the point that *resale value* and the schools are not a concern.
So what about the people who decide to live closer to Strake and St. Agnes which happen to be - guess where? Sharpstown. Some people can afford private tuition without being able to afford a house in Memorial. For that matter, I know a woman who lives in an apartment in Clear Lake with her daughter who goes to school at Incarnate Word downtown by the ballpark.
Some might also want to live in a less valuable house for which they would pay less in taxes, when they're thinking about staying put for a long time/permanently to the point that *resale value* and the schools are not a concern.
I see your point, and I sort of covered that in my first statement. There're people who will do that, but there are not enough of them to change a neighborhood. Most people with kids think 1) school zone 2) saftey 3) commute to work 4) appreciation. Private school proximity is pretty far down the list. I read an article somewhere that said the average private school student commutes 10 miles each direction. Also, what percent of the population can make it into Strake or St. Agnes and then want to live in Sharpstown? They're tough schools to get into, donations and legacies strongly suggested. This is why the public schools determine the neighborhood.
Last edited by EasilyAmused; 03-28-2008 at 11:06 AM..
When Sharpstown High School has 3.57% white population, its going to be a long road.
Are you assuming affluent people are always White? That seems like a racist statement. There are also middle and upper-class Blacks, Asians, Hispanics in the world (and in Houston).
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The places that are changing over slowly are in close proximity to downtown and are attracting wealthy singles or young couples.
I would have to make this attractive for them first. They pay taxes too! This makes seed money for starting revitalization.
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Once a family comes into play, they either go private or move to a good district. This is why the xburbs are so popular. Sharpstown is just far enough away from downtown for those who are willing to stake claim to neighborhoods and change them. Families are out by the Beltway and beyond, and most are looking for good/safe public schools.
Not for priced-out die hard Inner Loopers. You should hear the stories about empty nesters moving to the inner city and pricing them out.
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re: MCM. It has places like Bunker Hill and Frostwood behind it. Piney Point/Hedwig just to the East of it, and the family neighborhoods of Wilchester to the west of it. All very upper to upper middle class. That's why it pulled through after the post 80's bust. And it never got the rep of being dangerous or in a dangerous area. Run down yes, in a ghetto no.
I wouldn't be hanging out around Wilchester. It's starting to catch something. Apparently it's the kind of neighborhood where it looks good on the outside but it's high crime on the inside. That might change in a few years. On the other side of the Beltway, that's a different story.
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Sharptown Mall nor the neighborhoods doesn't have supporting neighborhoods all around it.
I'm talking about the fact that residential surrounds it and the future value of the spot. Once the residential becomes good again, that spot would be very profitable.
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Good luck to you though. I would love to see all shady parts of Houston pull out of the crap they're in. But trying to compare Sharpstown to Memorial is way off base. I guess that's my major point of getting involved in this conversation.
I'm not trying to pull every shady part of town out of the crap they're in, just trying to get them out of the very-populous Westside.
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Originally Posted by jfre81
Some might also want to live in a less valuable house for which they would pay less in taxes, when they're thinking about staying put for a long time/permanently to the point that *resale value* and the schools are not a concern.
That rings true for Cinco Ranch and high taxes.
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Originally Posted by EasilyAmused
I see your point, and I sort of covered that in my first statement. There're people who will do that, but there are not enough of them to change a neighborhood. Most people with kids think 1) school zone 2) saftey 3) commute to work 4) appreciation. Private school proximity is pretty far down the list. I read an article somewhere that said the average private school student commutes 10 miles each direction. Also, what percent of the population can make it into Strake or St. Agnes and then want to live in Sharpstown? They're tough schools to get into, donations and legacies strongly suggested. This is why the public schools determine the neighborhood.
Not necessarily. People who use private schools use don't care about the public schools (except for low taxes since they don't use it). It's like trying to sell Cinco Ranch to an uninterested Inner Loop couple. Why would they care?
I wouldn't be hanging out around Wilchester. It's starting to catch something. Apparently it's the kind of neighborhood where it looks good on the outside but it's high crime on the inside. That might change in a few years. On the other side of the Beltway, that's a different story.
Wilchester dangerous? High Crime? You're nuts. I own a house in Yorkshire. Just like anywhere in Houston, if you leave your car on the street overnight, you're playing with fire. That's about as spicey as it gets around there. It's actually a little safer than my Briargrove neighborhood. Siblings and friends in Wilchester would be equally shocked by your statements if not amused. Sure it's annoying to have Timmy's IPod stolen because he left it on the dash board, didn't lock the car and left it on the street.......
So car break-ins, possibly due to on going street construction means you wouldn't be caught in that neighborhood, but several murders monthly makes another neighborhood ok???
Sharpstown, it's a tough sell. Crime, number of red dots (murders) on Houston cime maps for 77036,apartments, poor schools, over 100 listings under 200k.....
I'm out.
Last edited by EasilyAmused; 03-28-2008 at 12:21 PM..
Sharpstown has needed to close for a long time. The only thing you find in there now are fake gold chains and baby clothes! That's just bad business. Nuff said!
Remember other dead-zone malls like Gulfgate and Meyerland about a decade ago? Developers tore them down and/or extensively redeveloped it and it's much more lively.
It's actually a little safer than my Briargrove neighborhood. Siblings and friends in Wilchester would be equally shocked by your statements if not amused.
Maybe it's just me liking the hot neighborhoods like Town and Country, the Villages, and Tanglewood and not the lesser-known adjacent neighborhoods like Briargrove or Wilchester.
About Briargrove, don't you feel kind of threatened about those apartments across the ditch between Westheimer and San Felipe (around the All Stars and (what's that Caligula XXI called nowadays?) strip clubs)?
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Sharpstown, it's a tough sell. Crime, number of red dots (murders) on Houston cime maps for 77036,apartments, poor schools, over 100 listings under 200k.....
I was comparing what Shapstown would look like in the future (5 years to revitalization) with the assumption that the neighborhoods north of Westheimer staying the same. Memorial City was lucky to be in the area of the second-most affluent demographic (to the Galleria area) since that would increase the chances of success. I guess those Villagers went to The Galleria before the renovation.
Actually a better comparison to the late-90's MCM is West Oaks. Like Memorial City, there is the untapped Energy Corridor, South Katy, and burgeoning Fulshear markets.
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Originally Posted by basketcase33
Sharpstown has needed to close for a long time. The only thing you find in there now are fake gold chains and baby clothes! That's just bad business. Nuff said!
I thought Memorial City was going to close permanently on that Sunday afternoon around April-May 2001 with all those stores closed. If I remember correctly, there were only 3 stores, Mervyns, and maybe Sears open. There wasn't much to shop that day with the choices being a pet shop, a dollar store, and a Chinese-import furniture store. I was surprised when I came back around '04 after the renovation. Metronational did it very well!
Also get it right, real gold and diamonds are being sold there. It's famous for the Jewelry Exchange and hip-hop celebrites stopping by for "bling."
One problem Sharpstown has had for a while is with the excessive space, thus couldn't get rid of the riff-raff stores very well. That's why I said that the mall revert to the original one-story design (demolish the very high second floor). The new Macy's store might have to become smaller (around 200,000 SF instead of the current 310,000 SF) as an average suburban-sized store.
Maybe it's just me liking the hot neighborhoods like Town and Country, the Villages, and Tanglewood and not the lesser-known adjacent neighborhoods like Briargrove or Wilchester.
***??? Huh what? And Town and Country has no houses. The closest is Fonn Villas, and they aren't "hot" Closest hot is Bunker Hill or Rustling Pines,Rummel Creek area, Gaywood and tada Wilchester***
About Briargrove, don't you feel kind of threatened about those apartments across the ditch between Westheimer and San Felipe (around the All Stars and (what's that Caligula XXI called nowadays?) strip clubs)?
***Briargrove extends down to Woodaway and actually shares streets with Tanglewood in my section. The strip club is other otherside of the run off, on Winrock and Westhiemer. It's Houston, strip clubs exist. The bad apartments BURNED DOWN two years ago, and no they never caused trouble. Once again its Houston, bad apartments pop up within a block or two of million dollar homes all the time.***
I was comparing what Shapstown would look like in the future (5 years to revitalization) with the assumption that the neighborhoods north of Westheimer staying the same. Memorial City was lucky to be in the area of the second-most affluent demographic (to the Galleria area) since that would increase the chances of success. I guess those Villagers went to The Galleria before the renovation.
***77024 is known to be the wealthiest zip code in Houston if not Texas, consistantly one of the Top Ten in the country. I love Uptown, but it doesn't rank
Everyone goes to the Galleria. But Villagers had Nieman Marcus and TC Mall up untill two-three years ago.***
Actually a better comparison to the late-90's MCM is West Oaks. Like Memorial City, there is the untapped Energy Corridor, South Katy, and burgeoning Fulshear markets.
***Energy Corridor goes to MCM, Galleria, TCV and soon the new CityCentre now. When you can jump on the Westpark and be at the Galleria in 10 minutes,EC peeps aren't going to drive to West Oaks. Wilchester is considered an EC neighborhood along with Nottingham Forest and others west of DA. West Oaks ranks worse than the OLD MCM with them.***
I thought Memorial City was going to close permanently on that Sunday afternoon around April-May 2001 with all those stores closed. If I remember correctly, there were only 3 stores, Mervyns, and maybe Sears open. There wasn't much to shop that day with the choices being a pet shop, a dollar store, and a Chinese-import furniture store. I was surprised when I came back around '04 after the renovation. Metronational did it very well!
Also get it right, real gold and diamonds are being sold there. It's famous for the Jewelry Exchange and hip-hop celebrites stopping by for "bling."
One problem Sharpstown has had for a while is with the excessive space, thus couldn't get rid of the riff-raff stores very well. That's why I said that the mall revert to the original one-story design (demolish the very high second floor). The new Macy's store might have to become smaller (around 200,000 SF instead of the current 310,000 SF) as an average suburban-sized store.
Are you seriously a Real Estate Agent?
I said I was done with this thread before, but your facts are just so wrong I had to post again. But now I'm really out because some of these statements are just so ridiculous it's obvious it won't go beyond that. I'm loading up my bike now, leaving non-trendy,stripperville Briargrove and braving the high crime stretch of Memorial to ride through the ghetto neighborhoods of West Memorial/THP. Hope some little LCC lady in her tennis whites doesn't hold me up with a loaded Martini glass for my IPOD!
PS- I have no clue on how to break up the quotes and insert comments.
Last edited by EasilyAmused; 03-29-2008 at 08:46 AM..
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