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Old 02-08-2018, 04:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LocalPlanner View Post
I'm not talking about fare recovery ratios, which are low for public rail transit (and usually bus as well). I'm talking about just the overall total operating cost, per mile or per train or whatever is appropriate.
I am, because who is paying the cost matters more to me than how much is the cost.
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Old 02-08-2018, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Houston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
I am, because who is paying the cost matters more to me than how much is the cost.
Well, on the theory that the Texas HSR will be privately run with no public operating subsidies, then why is this point relevant? (And yes, I know some folks are absolutely convinced the government will be "forced" to take it over on the remote chance it ever actually gets up and running, but that seems unjustifiably speculative to me.)
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Old 02-09-2018, 07:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LocalPlanner View Post
Well, on the theory that the Texas HSR will be privately run with no public operating subsidies, then why is this point relevant? (And yes, I know some folks are absolutely convinced the government will be "forced" to take it over on the remote chance it ever actually gets up and running, but that seems unjustifiably speculative to me.)
If it is run privately without public subsidy, I am 100% in favor of it. But I don't believe for a second that is remotely possible and the low fare recovery of operating expenses is a key and relevant factor determining that. They will either have to get operating costs much lower than public agencies or sell tickets at a much higher fare than those agencies because they need a 100% fare recovery ratio.

Like you, I think it's highly unlikely it ever gets completed and running but if it somehow does, I want ironclad bars protecting the public from footing the bill in case of failure. The time to install those bars is before the project begins not after it is completed. It is not "unjustifiably speculative" to plan for contingencies, it is "unreasonably reckless" to think we will just cross that bridge if we get to it.
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Old 02-09-2018, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Houston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
If it is run privately without public subsidy, I am 100% in favor of it. But I don't believe for a second that is remotely possible and the low fare recovery of operating expenses is a key and relevant factor determining that. They will either have to get operating costs much lower than public agencies or sell tickets at a much higher fare than those agencies because they need a 100% fare recovery ratio.

Like you, I think it's highly unlikely it ever gets completed and running but if it somehow does, I want ironclad bars protecting the public from footing the bill in case of failure. The time to install those bars is before the project begins not after it is completed. It is not "unjustifiably speculative" to plan for contingencies, it is "unreasonably reckless" to think we will just cross that bridge if we get to it.
I agree there should be some stipulation in government approvals that this project will not be backed by any public operating subsidies. I'm not sure you could prevent a statewide public vote on acquiring it though, if it failed and there was some sort of groundswell of support. Maybe if the legislature actually passed a law preventing it - but even that could be overturned.
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:12 AM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,089,407 times
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Originally Posted by LocalPlanner View Post
I agree there should be some stipulation in government approvals that this project will not be backed by any public operating subsidies. I'm not sure you could prevent a statewide public vote on acquiring it though, if it failed and there was some sort of groundswell of support. Maybe if the legislature actually passed a law preventing it - but even that could be overturned.
Well I wouldn't go so far as to block the will of the public. I just don't want the politicians making backroom deals. What I fear is the private group builds the rail line, runs it awhile at a loss, advertises heavily to "hook" the public, makes big political contributions to politicians, declares default, said politicians get the system placed under public ownership and award contracts to private group to manage it. Now the private "profit" becomes a public "expense". The private group gets the profits and the public gets the losses.
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:17 AM
 
23,770 posts, read 14,896,015 times
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Add on the Essential Air Services program. Did Trump cancel it?

And the contracts the UPSP has with commercial airlines to carry mail. That is the main reason train travel went in the crapper years ago. The post office used trains and switched to airlines for moving mail.

Last edited by crone; 02-09-2018 at 10:37 AM..
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:33 AM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,089,407 times
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Originally Posted by crone View Post
Add on the Essential Air Services program. Did trump cancel it?
That was the second item on the list, which you clearly did not bother to read.
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:40 AM
 
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It is childish to think that the public sector can build and develop all of the components necessary for the bullet train project to become a reality.
The public sector is mostly reliant on government subsidies to help it survive or to help with profits. Look at the banking system, if it wasn't for the government they would be fried. General motors would be history if it wasn't for the government hand out.
Look at all the toll roads, they are all built with people's taxes and then they are given to the private sector to make the profit. Look at the prison system, the government guarantees the private run prison with a number of prisoners to make a profit, if not they get subsidized.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkeT8I0KL1s

Today, many so called "third world" countries are building their bullet trains. They know that it is a win-win situation. Here, however, with all these so called "fiscal responsible" clowns in the way, nothing will be done and deservedly so.
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:59 AM
 
23,770 posts, read 14,896,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
That was the second item on the list, which you clearly did not bother to read.
I missed that while perusing the list. Consider me properly chastised. Clearly I cannot walk and chew gum.
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Old 02-09-2018, 11:25 AM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,089,407 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naners1 View Post
Today, many so called "third world" countries are building their bullet trains. They know that it is a win-win situation. Here, however, with all these so called "fiscal responsible" clowns in the way, nothing will be done and deservedly so.
Given our respective track records, my money is not on emulating the actions of "third world" countries.
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