W hotel coming to Houston (Dallas, Austin: subsidized, taxes, property)

[ParaguaneroSwag]

Originally Posted by madrone2k

Thanks, that's good to know. I've gotten mixed messages from various staff around there. I doubt any of them really know the right answer to give. The valets I've talked to insist (not surprisingly) that the only choice is to valet. They act surprised when I say "bye, I'll go eat somewhere else that has self parking". From the restaurant employees, I've gotten mixed messages, like you can self-park before 7 pm (or whatever), but they're not sure where. The surface lots seem to cordoned off and coned despite that. I've pretty much quit going to this development because its not clear what to do. I absolutely detest valet parking in places that have dozens or even hundreds of empty spots. I can understand the need for it where parking is limited, but I view it as an annoying pretense elsewhere. (Do I need someone to brush my teeth for me?)

I suppose that this is an issue that perhaps is too petty to be of concern for TF. However, I wish this weren't so. I don't fly in and out by helicopter. I like to walk ... which leads me to my last minor complaint: I wish they would finish up with the construction zone on the back road (Hollyhurst Lane) and put in some nice pedestrian amenities. I imagine the Uptown TIRZ would take care of most, if not all, of that.

Are the valets you’re talking to from the Post Oak tower of from an on-property restauarant? Because the restaurant valets might trick you by saying the restaurant itself doesn’t have parking while the property does. Anyway, what you do is you go up through the parking garage. The first 7 or so floors (can’t remember exactly how many) will have reserved parking signs on the wall. Then when the signs end, the parking is public. So you go inside and take the elevator back down and wallah-magic!

[ParaguaneroSwag]

Originally Posted by Spade

Yeah and Local Planner brought up the brands that would be great for Houston. They are getting an Equinox though which will become a luxury brand on par with the Peninsula, Mandarin-Oriental, etc.

One chained-hotel in Houston that is of this caliber exists. Which is the St. Regis. And one non-chained hotel exists which is the Post Oak Tower.

[madrone2k]

Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag

Are the valets you’re talking to from the Post Oak tower of from an on-property restauarant? Because the restaurant valets might trick you by saying the restaurant itself doesn’t have parking while the property does. Anyway, what you do is you go up through the parking garage. The first 7 or so floors (can’t remember exactly how many) will have reserved parking signs on the wall. Then when the signs end, the parking is public. So you go inside and take the elevator back down and wallah-magic!

Thanks for the tip. The valets I talked to were from Willie G's and the restaurant staff I talked to were from there and also Craft F&B. The were all nice, but I think they just didn't know. When the complex was just opening, I self-parked in the lot to the west of Willie G's. The last times I've been there, it seems to be reserved for valet parking all the time. I've noticed that there is a limited amount of self parking on the street just to the south of the complex.

The protocol for parking there has been confusing, so I've avoided going back. Next time, I'll try the upper floors in the garage. Or, I'll just walk there from where I live.

If I'm going to tip people, I'd rather give a nice one to the people who work in the restaurants and depend on them to supplement the low base salaries they get, while also providing services that people really need. I don't dislike the people who valet, but in many cases, that is not a service that people really need. I am puzzled why that service has become so common, and mandatory in some cases in which I see no reason. Could it be avoiding liability for the restaurant operators? I dunno.

[ParaguaneroSwag]

Took a while to get it running, but they just approved tax incentives to developers and construction is expected to start soon.

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag

Took a while to get it running, but they just approved tax incentives to developers and construction is expected to start soon.

I am not convinced that having a luxury hipster hotel brand, which Houston admittedly lacks in comparison to DFW / Austin / NOLA (and to some extent SA), will make us a more compelling destination, especially for meetings and conventions. Do groups and tourists really avoid Houston just because we don't have a luxury hipster brand? Heck, until Tilman's Post Oak Hotel, we didn't even have a true high-end luxury hotel - and no one has said whether that property is actually successful or not (and I doubt Tilman would ever say if it wasn't becuase there's too much pride involved).

Since I'm not convinced about the need for the W, I am not convinced of the need to subsidize it so heavily.

[timlot]

The subsidy doesn't cost the city anything. They're not getting any tax money for the space above Partnership Tower right now. Its only for 16 years and they get an asset that will create jobs and continue to revitalization of that Convention area that started with the Hilton and Discovery Green. Once they redo I-45 and put the cap park behind GRB its really going to be a catalyst for development for downtown's east end.

[ParaguaneroSwag]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

I am not convinced that having a luxury hipster hotel brand, which Houston admittedly lacks in comparison to DFW / Austin / NOLA (and to some extent SA), will make us a more compelling destination, especially for meetings and conventions. Do groups and tourists really avoid Houston just because we don't have a luxury hipster brand? Heck, until Tilman's Post Oak Hotel, we didn't even have a true high-end luxury hotel - and no one has said whether that property is actually successful or not (and I doubt Tilman would ever say if it wasn't becuase there's too much pride involved).

Since I'm not convinced about the need for the W, I am not convinced of the need to subsidize it so heavily.

Fertitta's Post Oak was the only luxury hotel? What are you talking about? St. Regis? Four Seasons? Granduca? Not to mention the Rosewood, Equinox, Thompson (and some others I've missed) are already under construction. Seriously, where do you get your information from?

Also, you must not know what this W is specifically for. It isn't to "make Houston a more hip destination". DFW has a W and it doesn't make it a "hip" destination like Austin and NOLA. Same goes for Phoenix, Minneapoli, etc who also have one. This is to enhance the convention district specifically.

This is why you research before you post, people.

Also, if you want to doubt the Post Oak's success, that's great. If you doubt the St. Regis and Four Seasons who have both been for decades, tell me exactly why they haven't pulled out.

[ParaguaneroSwag]

Also announced today: the new hyper “millennial-focused” Tempo Hotel by Hilton brand was just announced. Houston will be one of the first to get a location.

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag

Fertitta's Post Oak was the only luxury hotel? What are you talking about? St. Regis? Four Seasons? Granduca? Not to mention the Rosewood, Equinox, Thompson (and some others I've missed) are already under construction. Seriously, where do you get your information from?

Also, you must not know what this W is specifically for. It isn't to "make Houston a more hip destination". DFW has a W and it doesn't make it a "hip" destination like Austin and NOLA. Same goes for Phoenix, Minneapoli, etc who also have one. This is to enhance the convention district specifically.

This is why you research before you post, people.

Also, if you want to doubt the Post Oak's success, that's great. If you doubt the St. Regis and Four Seasons who have both been for decades, tell me exactly why they haven't pulled out.

I have done research. The St. Regis and Four Seasons, while undoubtedly in the "upscale" category, are not considered equals with their fellow brand properties in other cities and are certainly not on the same level as the Post Oak. Ritz-Carlton would have been back in Houston if they thought they could make a go of it like they can in Dallas. Yes, others are now planned as you noted. For a global city, we are severely lacking in notable true luxury flags, like Park Hyatt, Peninsula, and Mandarin Oriental. The Four Seasons, if it wanted to make a statement of equality with that level of brand in Houston, would have left its current property and built a new one.

If you saw the quotes in the paper, Houston First folks said that the W is to add "sizzle" to the Convention District and Houston - in other words, bring "hipness". It is not meant to serve a significant purpose in accommodating conventions, as it is much too small for a significant convention room block. I guess the Hotel Derek and the two ZaZas just don't have enough brand cachet to bring sufficient hipness.

[ParaguaneroSwag]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

I have done research. The St. Regis and Four Seasons, while undoubtedly in the "upscale" category, are not considered equals with their fellow brand properties in other cities and are certainly not on the same level as the Post Oak. Ritz-Carlton would have been back in Houston if they thought they could make a go of it like they can in Dallas. Yes, others are now planned as you noted. For a global city, we are severely lacking in notable true luxury flags, like Park Hyatt, Peninsula, and Mandarin Oriental. The Four Seasons, if it wanted to make a statement of equality with that level of brand in Houston, would have left its current property and built a new one.

If you saw the quotes in the paper, Houston First folks said that the W is to add "sizzle" to the Convention District and Houston - in other words, bring "hipness". It is not meant to serve a significant purpose in accommodating conventions, as it is much too small for a significant convention room block. I guess the Hotel Derek and the two ZaZas just don't have enough brand cachet to bring sufficient hipness.

You can mention "this Four Seasons is better than that" "that one has this" and keep going, but numbers don't lie. The Houston's Four Seasons sells for more than Dallas and hasn't failed. If Four Seasons wasn't "doing well enough" they wouln't charge more than Dallas Four Seasons as your claiming it has more "sizzle".

You're saying St. Regis and Four Seasons aren't of the same caliber of luxe as the Post Oak and you are correct. But what you're failing to mention is neither is the Ritz-Carlton Dallas. Ritz-Carlton winds up being a notch over the St. Regis, the Post Oak is over these two. The W Hotel isn't in the "extreme" level either. Houston's Rosewood and Equinox are expected of this level as well.

Also, this isn't a knock on Dallas, as I don't get into this type of stuff. this isn't what my post is about, I'm responding to yours, because that's what yours was about. Houston doesn't have the "sizzle" Austin has, neither does Dallas, and neither of the three have it from New Orleans. And if you judge this on luxury hotels, there isn't any evidence otherwise unless you look decades back.