Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Ok. Drive from the Galleria to Downtown at 4pm to catch a bus or train and tell me how that's working for you.
It's not even remotely concentrated. Concentrated is within several city blocks, not within 25 square miles.
It is for sure concentrated and Uptown is the furthest inner city business district. Uptown is 6 miles from the TMC, which is 4 miles from Downtown (so Uptown is 10 miles from Downtown).
Could you imagine taking rail from Uptown to Downtown during that time? Rail that was built correctly with overpasses over busy roads, etc.? It could take 15-20 minutes max at rush hour depending on the route.
Houston is still not the only city where business districts are spread out around the inner city and again throughout the metro area. It's layout is perfect for rail which is why it was approved by voters 30 years ago.
I've said on here for years that there is nothing at all unique about Houston having multiple CBDs, and that of them, downtown is still the biggest one. That has never changed and now it's a culture/entertainment center on a level it wasn't a couple decades ago.
Downtown, Greenway Plaza, Uptown/Galleria and even the EC could be linked by a fairly straight el-train. It's not really a scattershot arrangement, and it follows the general path of Buffalo Bayou.
Well as far as the Silver Line goes, it already has pretty decent ridership. The issue with service to Dulles specifically is that the existing express bus is a significantly faster ride (35-45 minutes) from DC than the Silver Line (50-60 minutes) will be with the ~16 stops from Metro Center. Regional leaders are hoping that it will help strengthen Dulles by making it easier to get to, but I doubt it. Most people who don't like to use Dulles don't use it because it takes too long to access it from DC, then takes too long to get through once you're in. The Silver Line extension won't solve either issue.
And heavy rail is generally cheaper than light rail if you don't have to deal with ROW or building tons of new track. I'm not sure how true that is in Houston - I don't know about the needs of the existing freight operators all that well - but if you can run it down existing track or at least using existing ROW, those capital costs go way way down. Both Minneapolis and Salt Lake City spent well under a billion dollars each to build ~40 mile commuter lines less than 10 years ago.
I think we're talking about separate things here:
Commuter rail = cheapest (DFW's Trinity Expressway, Los Angeles' Metrolink, etc.)
Light rail = more expensive (MetroRail, DART, etc.)
Heavy rail = most expensive (NYC Subway, Chicago EL, BART, etc.)
It's true that it may 50 minutes to get to Dulles but depending on where you are in the city that extra 20 minutes is negligible in the grand scheme of things, especially considering the unpredictable traffic. I'd rather walk a couple of blocks to a subway station and take the train over taking a train to a bus.
Yeah for a lot of people in the DC area, Reagan is used for domestic flights (BWI too) and Dulles certainly more international.
Houston had a few abandoned rail beds, but the Katy Freeway expansion took over one, Westpark Tollway another, etc. I'm not sure how many still exist in the area that'd make for good transit conversions.
I've said on here for years that there is nothing at all unique about Houston having multiple CBDs, and that of them, downtown is still the biggest one. That has never changed and now it's a culture/entertainment center on a level it wasn't a couple decades ago.
Downtown, Greenway Plaza, Uptown/Galleria and even the EC could be linked by a fairly straight el-train. It's not really a scattershot arrangement, and it follows the general path of Buffalo Bayou.
Agreed. Yet you'll find many that have been convinced that these multiple CBDs are a result of Houston's lack of zoning. Just check out the Houston Wikipedia entry.
Commuter rail = cheapest (DFW's Trinity Expressway, Los Angeles' Metrolink, etc.)
Light rail = more expensive (MetroRail, DART, etc.)
Heavy rail = most expensive (NYC Subway, Chicago EL, BART, etc.)
It's true that it may 50 minutes to get to Dulles but depending on where you are in the city that extra 20 minutes is negligible in the grand scheme of things, especially considering the unpredictable traffic. I'd rather walk a couple of blocks to a subway station and take the train over taking a train to a bus.
Yeah for a lot of people in the DC area, Reagan is used for domestic flights (BWI too) and Dulles certainly more international.
Houston had a few abandoned rail beds, but the Katy Freeway expansion took over one, Westpark Tollway another, etc. I'm not sure how many still exist in the area that'd make for good transit conversions.
I think if the bus is significantly faster and has room for luggage, most will take the bus vs. the train. Who would take the train except the exceptionally bus-phobic?
Regarding commuter rail, UP and BNSF have made it explicitly clear that they will NOT share the tracks with commuter rail. New commuter rail will require acquisition of ROW, making it very expensive.
FYI METRO owns the former rail ROW from Kirby Dr. to Simonton. They required 50 feet width to be preserved when the Westpark Tollway was built.
Commuter rail = cheapest (DFW's Trinity Expressway, Los Angeles' Metrolink, etc.)
Light rail = more expensive (MetroRail, DART, etc.)
Heavy rail = most expensive (NYC Subway, Chicago EL, BART, etc.)
It's true that it may 50 minutes to get to Dulles but depending on where you are in the city that extra 20 minutes is negligible in the grand scheme of things, especially considering the unpredictable traffic. I'd rather walk a couple of blocks to a subway station and take the train over taking a train to a bus.
Yeah for a lot of people in the DC area, Reagan is used for domestic flights (BWI too) and Dulles certainly more international.
Houston had a few abandoned rail beds, but the Katy Freeway expansion took over one, Westpark Tollway another, etc. I'm not sure how many still exist in the area that'd make for good transit conversions.
The traffic isn't unpredictable for the commuter bus from DC though. I-66 is free-flowing during rush hour as the entire highway is congestion tolled, and there's an airport access road that's never congested. It's a much better one seat ride from DC than the train will be.
Fun fact - when the first section of the Silver Line opened a few years ago quite a few commuters from the Wiehle/Reston area complained that their commute times increased because they had to now make a bunch of stops instead of just taking an express bus to DC (a lot of duplicative express bus services were cut at that time).
People generally just want the fastest way to get somewhere, at the end of the day they don't really care whether its a train or a nice bus (as we will see once the Post Oak BRT line is finished). I would say at least the Silver Line to Dulles could have a slightly more reliable trip time (albeit longer) but that's not even a given - the DC metro isn't exactly a paragon of reliability.
I've always felt that Bush was built way too far from Houston. The major airports of other cities are much closer to their respective centers.
Some are and some are not and those that aren't can make it work. Example, Washington DC, Paris, and Buenos Aires have their international airports at close to the same distance from their city centers as IAH is from Downtown Houston. I believe Heathrow is about 20 miles from London.
Can there be rail to the airport? Yes. It will have to be on its own row. I personally do feel Houston is better designed for Heavy Rail than DFW. But it's just way to expensive. If you run the current rail as it is now to IAH, than that will fail and quite easily.
I've used Dulles twice to fly out. I rather take BWI or Reagan over Dulles. It will be interesting to see how the Silver Line really works. When the Silver Opened, I noticed how long it took to get from East Falls Church to McLean station. It was long so imagine how much longer it will be once the next phase of the Silver Line opens. Haven't been back there since because there is no reason unless you want to go to Tyson's Corner. I think a system like what DC can work, though in Houston; but make it better. It would have to be more reliable and build a 3rd or 4th track if need be instead of the 2 track system DC has. Probably shouldn't rely on so many escalators like the DC system does as well. They put millions of dollars fixing these things yearly. Have stairs and elevators and be done with it.
I think mikkeyyc does present a good point on the decentralized factor that Houston brings but I don't think it's a major problem. It could help in connecting these nodes even more. As density increases in Houston, it will be interesting to see which direction the region and especially the city and inner loop decides to go.
I've used Dulles twice to fly out. I rather take BWI or Reagan over Dulles. It will be interesting to see how the Silver Line really works. When the Silver Opened, I noticed how long it took to get from East Falls Church to McLean station. It was long so imagine how much longer it will be once the next phase of the Silver Line opens. Haven't been back there since because there is no reason unless you want to go to Tyson's Corner. I think a system like what DC can work, though in Houston; but make it better. It would have to be more reliable and build a 3rd or 4th track if need be instead of the 2 track system DC has. Probably shouldn't rely on so many escalators like the DC system does as well. They put millions of dollars fixing these things yearly. Have stairs and elevators and be done with it.
I think mikkeyyc does present a good point on the decentralized factor that Houston brings but I don't think it's a major problem. It could help in connecting these nodes even more. As density increases in Houston, it will be interesting to see which direction the region and especially the city and inner loop decides to go.
How fast was it getting there before a brand new rail line opened considering you had to make bus connections? According to Google Maps, it would take 10-15 minutes driving right now (green conditions) and 7 minutes via the train.
I'd say Tysons Corner is a pretty big destination too. Basically Uptown Houston. Not to mention the other TODs like Reston where 60,000 people live.
Also many cities are decentralized. Actually all major cities are. Houston is setup well with having its largest business districts located in a pretty centralized area. The furthest distance would be Uptown-Downtown at 10 miles and all three (well four: Downtown, TMC, Greenway, and Uptown) are getting closer every year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Clutch
The traffic isn't unpredictable for the commuter bus from DC though. I-66 is free-flowing during rush hour as the entire highway is congestion tolled, and there's an airport access road that's never congested. It's a much better one seat ride from DC than the train will be.
Fun fact - when the first section of the Silver Line opened a few years ago quite a few commuters from the Wiehle/Reston area complained that their commute times increased because they had to now make a bunch of stops instead of just taking an express bus to DC (a lot of duplicative express bus services were cut at that time).
That of course depends on where they work. There are other stories of it helping commuters who work in the Tyson area for example.
It'll be interesting to see with increased traffic and toll prices how much it remains the same. I think eventually it'll be well integrated into more commutes like the other rail lines are in DC. It's still just a couple of years old.
Quote:
People generally just want the fastest way to get somewhere, at the end of the day they don't really care whether its a train or a nice bus (as we will see once the Post Oak BRT line is finished). I would say at least the Silver Line to Dulles could have a slightly more reliable trip time (albeit longer) but that's not even a given - the DC metro isn't exactly a paragon of reliability.
Extending the Purple Line may be slightly more feasible, but it should be primarily to serve the intervening neighborhoods. Airport traffic by itself is not justification for a line extension.
There's already that line that makes it almost 1/2 way from downtown to the airport
It can't be that difficult to finish going all the way to IAH.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
