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Old 07-14-2018, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Houston
2,053 posts, read 1,704,869 times
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Regarding Caucasians, a little nuance is helpful. It is important to note that while the "urban" portion of the young growing city had a strong population of people with British and Irish ancestry, with some Italians later (though I don't view them as "defining" of the demographic profile as I do with say, New Orleans or Galveston or certainly places like NYC and Philly), much of the area to the west and north which the urban area grew into from the late 1800s was very much dominated by folks with German ancestry, and also Czech, who had been living around here for decades by then.
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Old 07-14-2018, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
9,289 posts, read 8,407,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Lance View Post
It's amazing how you can recite all this without referring to a single source outside of your own expertise.


"White" American settlement started With Steven F Austin's settlements in the areas to the west and southwest of Houston. Sam Houston called the capital back to Houston because of fear of Mexican invasion starting the archive wars during the Republic of Texas days, and you mention nothing concerning American migration into Houston or Texas. Most native or long time white Houstonians are descendants of migrants from places like Alabama, Arkansas , Tennessee and other US states mostly to the east, as I am on my mothers side. My Dads parents were European immigrants into Galveston via New York.


I would like for you to supply any credible source that claims the origins of most white people in Houston today are from direct European immigration over domestic migration ….
Okay, source:

Here's a chronicle article on this:

"They were among an estimated 200,000 immigrants who came to America via the port of Galveston between 1865 and 1924."
source:
https://www.chron.com/life/article/W...as-1732835.php

200,000 is a lot don't you say?

This paper does a great justice to the Italians, it mainly focuses on New Orleans but talks about Galveston too. New Orleans got a magnitude more Italians than Galveston but Galveston and New Orleans were neck and neck for Irish immigrants.

Louisiana's Italian Immigrants Prior to 1870
Russell M. Magnaghi
Louisiana History: The Journal of the Louisiana Historical Association

You can sum up the totals if you like:
https://www.loc.gov/rr/genealogy/bib...ant/lists.html
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Old 07-14-2018, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
9,289 posts, read 8,407,187 times
Reputation: 5304
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernBoy205 View Post
Of course, most blacks in Houston resulted from slavery. However, if the modern-day blacks didnít come from Africa or the Caribbean, then a good chunk of the population came from Louisiana or have Louisiana roots, and the rest came from East Texas and other parts of the country.
Most African Americans (not native Africans) in Houston have a Louisiana background. Most of them are actually Creole, a mixture of French and African.

The new arrivals come from Nigeria, Sudan, and other sub Saharan African countries.
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Old 07-14-2018, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
9,289 posts, read 8,407,187 times
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This is the basic rub:

Houston was the "alternate New Orleans". Business friendly but without the culture, it was a place to make money. You chose either the culture of New Orleans and the kickbacks or the money in Houston. Had business practices been more friendly in New Orleans, the whole oil industry would be centered there and Houston would be no larger than Corpus Christi.

A lot of people challenge me on these topics but my uncle had a PhD in History and actually would go to the burial mounds throughout the state. He would show me pics from circa 1780 New Orleans and circa 1850 Galveston. He had all the newspaper articles from every year for every major Gulf city from the beginning of settlement stored on his computer.

Most of you are confusing the settlement patterns of Dallas, which basically was settled by Southerners and Midwesterners. The Southerners in Houston are primarily Louisianians and I explained why. Dallas has a large Louisiana contingent as well (just go to a local bar when LSU is playing and you'll see what I mean). The Germans in Texas are mainly centered in central Texas.

Nothing I say can be disputed. These are the facts. This may not jive with the way you want to view it, but this is the history of Houston.

Texas has always kind of been "Louisiana lite" in the sense it has so many Louisiana transplants that wanted to live close by family but avoid the corruption. The connection is very strong and cannot be denied. Even the Vietnamese population in Houston largely hails from Louisiana. That's why you have Viet-Cajun restaurants and such.
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Old 07-14-2018, 07:07 PM
Status: "waite untill next year. It was fun while it lasted !" (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: Beautiful Northwest Houston
4,645 posts, read 4,482,129 times
Reputation: 3835
Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
Okay, source:

Here's a chronicle article on this:

"They were among an estimated 200,000 immigrants who came to America via the port of Galveston between 1865 and 1924."
source:
https://www.chron.com/life/article/W...as-1732835.php

200,000 is a lot don't you say?

This paper does a great justice to the Italians, it mainly focuses on New Orleans but talks about Galveston too. New Orleans got a magnitude more Italians than Galveston but Galveston and New Orleans were neck and neck for Irish immigrants.

Louisiana's Italian Immigrants Prior to 1870
Russell M. Magnaghi
Louisiana History: The Journal of the Louisiana Historical Association

You can sum up the totals if you like:
https://www.loc.gov/rr/genealogy/bib...ant/lists.html
There may have been a time in the early 20th century when immigration may have been the predominate source of origin of the European population in Houston but that time has long since past. 200k is a lot but you yourself agree that many if not most of those ended up in other parts of the state and nation for that matter.

There are about 2.5 million non Hispanic whites in the Houston area today and with all the domestic migration to Houston especially during the post war period I don't see how anybody could surmise that the main origins of the white population in Houston is not from other U.S. states.

BTW you totally ignored domestic migration in your original epistle in this thread..

Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
This is the basic rub:

Houston was the "alternate New Orleans". Business friendly but without the culture, it was a place to make money. You chose either the culture of New Orleans and the kickbacks or the money in Houston. Had business practices been more friendly in New Orleans, the whole oil industry would be centered there and Houston would be no larger than Corpus Christi.

A lot of people challenge me on these topics but my uncle had a PhD in History and actually would go to the burial mounds throughout the state. He would show me pics from circa 1780 New Orleans and circa 1850 Galveston. He had all the newspaper articles from every year for every major Gulf city from the beginning of settlement stored on his computer.

Most of you are confusing the settlement patterns of Dallas, which basically was settled by Southerners and Midwesterners. The Southerners in Houston are primarily Louisianians and I explained why. Dallas has a large Louisiana contingent as well (just go to a local bar when LSU is playing and you'll see what I mean). The Germans in Texas are mainly centered in central Texas.

Nothing I say can be disputed. These are the facts. This may not jive with the way you want to view it, but this is the history of Houston.

Texas has always kind of been "Louisiana lite" in the sense it has so many Louisiana transplants that wanted to live close by family but avoid the corruption. The connection is very strong and cannot be denied. Even the Vietnamese population in Houston largely hails from Louisiana. That's why you have Viet-Cajun restaurants and such.
lol How do you come up with this stuff cBach, this is hilarious

Houston is the center of the oil industry because the oil was in Texas. Houston may have outdueled Beaumont for the center of the Texas oil industry, and thus the U.S. oil industry, but not New Orleans. The people who developed the Texas oil industry were by and large from S.E. Texas, or New York, not Louisiana.

I will somewhat agree with you that not for oil Texas in general would have been a glorified Mississippi, and none of the major Texas cities would be the booming metropolises they are today. Oil is what made any part of this state attractive, oil built the original infrastructure, oil money attracted any intellectual base that is now diversifying the Texas economy. Who would care about Austin if not for UT and it's oil and gas that funded the rise of UT, and is still the main component of UT's endowment.

I live here I can tell you the Vietnamese population came here mostly via California. This view you seem to have that Texas is a cultural colony of Louisiana is bizarre
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Old 07-15-2018, 12:21 AM
 
12,202 posts, read 17,564,997 times
Reputation: 3350
Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
Most African Americans (not native Africans) in Houston have a Louisiana background. Most of them are actually Creole, a mixture of French and African.

The new arrivals come from Nigeria, Sudan, and other sub Saharan African countries.
Ummm. Didnít I say that? I know my black history.
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Old 07-15-2018, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX
9,289 posts, read 8,407,187 times
Reputation: 5304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Lance View Post
There may have been a time in the early 20th century when immigration may have been the predominate source of origin of the European population in Houston but that time has long since past. 200k is a lot but you yourself agree that many if not most of those ended up in other parts of the state and nation for that matter.

There are about 2.5 million non Hispanic whites in the Houston area today and with all the domestic migration to Houston especially during the post war period I don't see how anybody could surmise that the main origins of the white population in Houston is not from other U.S. states.

BTW you totally ignored domestic migration in your original epistle in this thread..



lol How do you come up with this stuff cBach, this is hilarious

Houston is the center of the oil industry because the oil was in Texas. Houston may have outdueled Beaumont for the center of the Texas oil industry, and thus the U.S. oil industry, but not New Orleans. The people who developed the Texas oil industry were by and large from S.E. Texas, or New York, not Louisiana.

I will somewhat agree with you that not for oil Texas in general would have been a glorified Mississippi, and none of the major Texas cities would be the booming metropolises they are today. Oil is what made any part of this state attractive, oil built the original infrastructure, oil money attracted any intellectual base that is now diversifying the Texas economy. Who would care about Austin if not for UT and it's oil and gas that funded the rise of UT, and is still the main component of UT's endowment.

I live here I can tell you the Vietnamese population came here mostly via California. This view you seem to have that Texas is a cultural colony of Louisiana is bizarre
Guess how many children those 200,000 immigrants had? Well we know that the Irish and Italians usually had between 4-10 children as they were both Catholic. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that those 200,000 could now represent 4 million or more people.

200,000 1st gen
800,000 2nd gen (let's assume average 4 kids)
2,400,000 3rd gen (let's assume average 3 kids) - 200,000 (the 1st gen is dead by now) = 2,200,000
4,400,000 4th gen (let's assume average 2 kids) - 800,000 (the 2nd gen is dead by now) = 3,600,000

Now let's assume that 30% of those moved elsewhere, 1,080,000
That leaves 2,520,000 which is your 2.5 million whites.
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:49 AM
Status: "waite untill next year. It was fun while it lasted !" (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: Beautiful Northwest Houston
4,645 posts, read 4,482,129 times
Reputation: 3835
Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach View Post
Guess how many children those 200,000 immigrants had? Well we know that the Irish and Italians usually had between 4-10 children as they were both Catholic. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that those 200,000 could now represent 4 million or more people.

200,000 1st gen
800,000 2nd gen (let's assume average 4 kids)
2,400,000 3rd gen (let's assume average 3 kids) - 200,000 (the 1st gen is dead by now) = 2,200,000
4,400,000 4th gen (let's assume average 2 kids) - 800,000 (the 2nd gen is dead by now) = 3,600,000

Now let's assume that 30% of those moved elsewhere, 1,080,000
That leaves 2,520,000 which is your 2.5 million whites.
1st I would dispute that 70% of those 200k immigrants stayed in the Houston area, my guess is maybe 1 in 4 stayed.

2nd those 200k did not have kids by themselves. 200k immigrants at most pair up to 100k breeding couples at most, which cuts your fuzzy math estimates in half from the get go. Of course many paired with native born Americans and others led lives as Bachelors or Spinsters , not to mention all the Priest and Nuns that led celibate lives because of course in your scenario they're all devout Catholics

3rd your characterizations that all these immigrants were Catholic or that Catholics had higher birth rates than Lutheran Germans or Episcopalians is somewhat insulting. You also seem to be insinuating that all 2.5 million "white" people in Houston today are either of Irish or Italian decent which of course is ludicrous
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:10 AM
 
2,038 posts, read 1,476,648 times
Reputation: 3312
Its pretty undisputable that a majority of white houstonians (and a goodly portion of black for that matter) originally had roots in Louisiana. Actual European immigrants on the other hand would be a different story though obviously.
Attached Thumbnails
The Origins of whites in Houston-states_pop_origin.jpg  

Last edited by soletaire; 07-15-2018 at 10:28 AM..
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:15 AM
 
12,202 posts, read 17,564,997 times
Reputation: 3350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Lance View Post
There may have been a time in the early 20th century when immigration may have been the predominate source of origin of the European population in Houston but that time has long since past. 200k is a lot but you yourself agree that many if not most of those ended up in other parts of the state and nation for that matter.

There are about 2.5 million non Hispanic whites in the Houston area today and with all the domestic migration to Houston especially during the post war period I don't see how anybody could surmise that the main origins of the white population in Houston is not from other U.S. states.

BTW you totally ignored domestic migration in your original epistle in this thread..



lol How do you come up with this stuff cBach, this is hilarious

Houston is the center of the oil industry because the oil was in Texas. Houston may have outdueled Beaumont for the center of the Texas oil industry, and thus the U.S. oil industry, but not New Orleans. The people who developed the Texas oil industry were by and large from S.E. Texas, or New York, not Louisiana.

I will somewhat agree with you that not for oil Texas in general would have been a glorified Mississippi, and none of the major Texas cities would be the booming metropolises they are today. Oil is what made any part of this state attractive, oil built the original infrastructure, oil money attracted any intellectual base that is now diversifying the Texas economy. Who would care about Austin if not for UT and it's oil and gas that funded the rise of UT, and is still the main component of UT's endowment.

I live here I can tell you the Vietnamese population came here mostly via California. This view you seem to have that Texas is a cultural colony of Louisiana is bizarre
Texas is not a Louisiana colony, but Houston and Beaumont are culturally aligned with Louisiana. The blacks and whites have deep roots from there.
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