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Old 02-20-2019, 02:27 PM
bu2
 
24,093 posts, read 14,879,963 times
Reputation: 12929

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DabOnEm View Post
Yeah I'm tired of people being dishonest. Who in their right mind would equate the IAH bus from Downtown as the same thing as rail stops at both airports. Rail stops that would be apart of an overall system and not just a pick up point. It has proven successful in every major American city. The largest city without rail to its largest airport, LA, is building two lines + a people mover. A third line is also proposed that'll have a stop at the airport. This notion that rail to the airports won't work in Houston is a very false one.
And San Francisco didn't build a rail line to its close in airport until about 15 years ago.

Los Angeles is the 2nd biggest city. So what you just said is New York has rail to its airports.

Airports are not the biggest driver of transit. Jobs are.
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Old 02-20-2019, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Unplugged from the matrix
4,754 posts, read 2,976,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
And San Francisco didn't build a rail line to its close in airport until about 15 years ago.

Los Angeles is the 2nd biggest city. So what you just said is New York has rail to its airports.

Airports are not the biggest driver of transit. Jobs are.
Los Angeles has two light rail lines to its airport under construction, with a third rail line (heavy rail) planned.

As for San Francisco, that is not what I said at all. Besides, SF building rail to its airport (the Oakland airport is also connected) further proves that it's important for major cities. Why would you use that as your example? Your acting like it needed to be built with the initial construction of BART. It was placed in the original plan in the late 70s, and eventually built.

Airports aren't the biggest drivers of transit (who said that they were?), but it's important for major cities to connect their airports to overall transit lines. See every other major American city (above 4 million people in the metro) as proof... I didn't never mentioned NYC so I have no idea what you mean there.
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:23 PM
bu2
 
24,093 posts, read 14,879,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DabOnEm View Post
Los Angeles has two light rail lines to its airport under construction, with a third rail line (heavy rail) planned.

As for San Francisco, that is not what I said at all. Besides, SF building rail to its airport (the Oakland airport is also connected) further proves that it's important for major cities. Why would you use that as your example? Your acting like it needed to be built with the initial construction of BART. It was placed in the original plan in the late 70s, and eventually built.

Airports aren't the biggest drivers of transit (who said that they were?), but it's important for major cities to connect their airports to overall transit lines. See every other major American city (above 4 million people in the metro) as proof... I didn't never mentioned NYC so I have no idea what you mean there.
San Francisco building it was waaaaayyy down the list of their expansions.

DC doesn't have a connection to Dulles yet.

Miami doesn't have a connection to its airport.
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Old 02-20-2019, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Unplugged from the matrix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
San Francisco building it was waaaaayyy down the list of their expansions.

DC doesn't have a connection to Dulles yet.

Miami doesn't have a connection to its airport.
San Francisco has always had a plan to get it to the airport. DC has connections to National (and BWI) and the rail to Dulles is under construction. Miami has had a connection to its airport for years. There's an automated people mover that connects it with a commuter and heavy rail station. The only stop along the way being the airport's rental car center...
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Houston
5,614 posts, read 4,939,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DabOnEm View Post
San Francisco has always had a plan to get it to the airport. DC has connections to National (and BWI) and the rail to Dulles is under construction. Miami has had a connection to its airport for years. There's an automated people mover that connects it with a commuter and heavy rail station. The only stop along the way being the airport's rental car center...
In SF, OAK, and LA their rail systems go through very heavily populated and job-heavy locations all the way to the airport. The area between IAH and the Loop is mostly very low density of both population and jobs. This is what really kills rail to IAH.

Hobby has more density, but even METRO's projections show very low ridership on the proposed Hobby light rail extensions.
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:12 AM
 
3,148 posts, read 2,050,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DabOnEm View Post
San Francisco has always had a plan to get it to the airport. DC has connections to National (and BWI) and the rail to Dulles is under construction. Miami has had a connection to its airport for years. There's an automated people mover that connects it with a commuter and heavy rail station. The only stop along the way being the airport's rental car center...
Airport rail is one of those "nice to have, but definitely not necessary things". Main reason being, no matter where you are, most people don't use it to get to the airport. It's biggest users will be leisure tourists as opposed to business visitors or residents.

I used to live nearly exactly halfway between DCA and IAD in Northern Virginia. I would almost always Uber to either one. The only times I took the train to DCA were if I were leaving from work on a business trip (3 stops, no real luggage, so why not) or if for some reason traffic was going to be stupid and the time it took to Uber wasn't predictable. I think I did it 4 or 5 times in probably more than 50 trips.

Most of the places that have built airport rail extensions have been in cases where its a logical part of the system. I don't think it makes sense to build airport rail extensions as a goal per se, and the Hobby connections are going to be woefully underutilized if they build them imo. It would only win the time race vs driving to downtown during really bad rush hours. You're probably talking 45 minutes plus on both the Green and the Purple lines to get downtown, given all the other stops.

I'm not a big fan of this part of the plan, express buses or BRT would be better for this. Honestly, a commuter rail up 45 doglegging off to Hobby would be the best solution, but that's not going to happen at this point. If we're going to keep extending the ground-level LRT, that should only go in the densest, busiest corridors going forward.
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Old 02-21-2019, 07:46 PM
bu2
 
24,093 posts, read 14,879,963 times
Reputation: 12929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Clutch View Post
Airport rail is one of those "nice to have, but definitely not necessary things". Main reason being, no matter where you are, most people don't use it to get to the airport. It's biggest users will be leisure tourists as opposed to business visitors or residents.

I used to live nearly exactly halfway between DCA and IAD in Northern Virginia. I would almost always Uber to either one. The only times I took the train to DCA were if I were leaving from work on a business trip (3 stops, no real luggage, so why not) or if for some reason traffic was going to be stupid and the time it took to Uber wasn't predictable. I think I did it 4 or 5 times in probably more than 50 trips.

Most of the places that have built airport rail extensions have been in cases where its a logical part of the system. I don't think it makes sense to build airport rail extensions as a goal per se, and the Hobby connections are going to be woefully underutilized if they build them imo. It would only win the time race vs driving to downtown during really bad rush hours. You're probably talking 45 minutes plus on both the Green and the Purple lines to get downtown, given all the other stops.

I'm not a big fan of this part of the plan, express buses or BRT would be better for this. Honestly, a commuter rail up 45 doglegging off to Hobby would be the best solution, but that's not going to happen at this point. If we're going to keep extending the ground-level LRT, that should only go in the densest, busiest corridors going forward.
Yes. If they are going to extend the east line, it should go down Hwy 3, hit the Edgewood park n ride and connect to Hobby from there. Or have the SE line go to Hobby and connect to the east line at Edgewood, with the east line going down to the Beltway 8 P&R. Makes no sense to run the east line down to connect to the SE.
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Old 02-21-2019, 10:51 PM
 
18,130 posts, read 25,282,316 times
Reputation: 16835
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
San Francisco building it was waaaaayyy down the list of their expansions.

DC doesn't have a connection to Dulles yet.

Miami doesn't have a connection to its airport.
Public infrastructure doesn’t follow jobs
Jobs follow public infrastructure
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Old 02-22-2019, 09:24 AM
 
2,548 posts, read 4,052,968 times
Reputation: 3996
Many millennials have no interest in driving. Companies are going to find, increasingly, that to attract the talent they want, they should be near public transportation. It's going to be a long, slow transition in Houston but it's got to happen... there just isn't enough road for our growing population to all rely on cars.
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Old 02-22-2019, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
20,515 posts, read 33,540,106 times
Reputation: 12152
Quote:
Originally Posted by houston-nomad View Post
Many millennials have no interest in driving. Companies are going to find, increasingly, that to attract the talent they want, they should be near public transportation. It's going to be a long, slow transition in Houston but it's got to happen... there just isn't enough road for our growing population to all rely on cars.
LA figured this out. Can’t highway yourself out of problems forever in large metropolitan areas. Not to mention, the inner core of Houston density is going to get higher which justifies more public transit.
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