Are red light cameras coming back to Houston?

[ganadocoog]

There is no doubt that the red light cameras are largely a money grab for the camera company and the local jurisdictions that implement them. They have often rigged the lights to where there is a shorter "yellow" period in many cases so that a "confidence" can be given on a certain "return". How can that not be interpreted without skepticism about true intent?


As far as public safety, I have doubts that there is a statistically significant difference in dangerous T-bone incidents- as another poster said, these are very rare events and many times the cause is not something that can be mitigated by a red light camera (distracted, drunk, texting, etc...). I firmly believe that there are more rear-end accidents as people slam on their brakes to avoid a ticket. Accordingly, I believe red light cameras are a clear overall net negative for the public.


I could possibly be for very limited red light camera use ONLY at intersections that have had a high frequency of deadly T-bone accidents but ONLY if there is a camera delay such that ONLY the egregious "woah" type red light runners are ticketed, however, as another poster has said, the VAST majority of tickets are to drivers that "just barely" run a red light and pose ZERO threat to public safety. As stated, even worse, the local jurisdictions often get greedy and go the other way and rig the lights to have shorter yellow lights. My proposal isn't a very good "business model" for the camera company or jurisdiction though.

[baytownb]

Correct, we caught Houston, Baytown and other cities that shortened the yellow light so they could get more tickets but that decreases safety as well. There were several articles and news stories about it and the city was forced to extend the yellow when they got caught. Here's another thing that tells you that it's all about the money. The camera companies that were trying to sell the cities camera systems had FREE technology they would have given them as part of the system that would detect someone at a high rate of speed that was about to run the light and delay the green light for opposing traffic. In other words it would physically prevent innocent people from entering the intersection if it was dangerous, all automatically. Guess what, as far as I know no Texas city took them up on the free technology because it would cut into their profits.

Originally Posted by ganadocoog

There is no doubt that the red light cameras are largely a money grab for the camera company and the local jurisdictions that implement them. They have often rigged the lights to where there is a shorter "yellow" period in many cases so that a "confidence" can be given on a certain "return". How can that not be interpreted without skepticism about true intent?


As far as public safety, I have doubts that there is a statistically significant difference in dangerous T-bone incidents- as another poster said, these are very rare events and many times the cause is not something that can be mitigated by a red light camera (distracted, drunk, texting, etc...). I firmly believe that there are more rear-end accidents as people slam on their brakes to avoid a ticket. Accordingly, I believe red light cameras are a clear overall net negative for the public.


I could possibly be for very limited red light camera use ONLY at intersections that have had a high frequency of deadly T-bone accidents but ONLY if there is a camera delay such that ONLY the egregious "woah" type red light runners are ticketed, however, as another poster has said, the VAST majority of tickets are to drivers that "just barely" run a red light and pose ZERO threat to public safety. As stated, even worse, the local jurisdictions often get greedy and go the other way and rig the lights to have shorter yellow lights. My proposal isn't a very good "business model" for the camera company or jurisdiction though.

[Double L]

In Texas, we have found a way to solidify that red light cameras cannot be used for profit. The money doesn't go to the local government operating the cameras, it is required to go to other sources.

Fines collected through red light camera violations are used to pay for the installation, operation, administration and maintenance of the photographic enforcement system. Camera equipment costs vary based on the type of camera, the complexity of the intersection, and technical requirements. A red light camera system installation can cost more than $100,000. A portion of the revenue from the installation over and above costs is required to be directed to the regional trauma account and local traffic safety programs.

https://www.txdot.gov/driver/laws/red-light/faqs.html

[Mr. Clutch]

Originally Posted by baytownb

Correct, we caught Houston, Baytown and other cities that shortened the yellow light so they could get more tickets but that decreases safety as well. There were several articles and news stories about it and the city was forced to extend the yellow when they got caught. Here's another thing that tells you that it's all about the money. The camera companies that were trying to sell the cities camera systems had FREE technology they would have given them as part of the system that would detect someone at a high rate of speed that was about to run the light and delay the green light for opposing traffic. In other words it would physically prevent innocent people from entering the intersection if it was dangerous, all automatically. Guess what, as far as I know no Texas city took them up on the free technology because it would cut into their profits.

This is a great idea, and honestly a better idea for Houston than the cameras would likely be. With that said, I've never heard of anywhere in the country implementing this - do they have this technology in any other states that you know of?

I'd love to see something like this though - the red light thing is a major safety issue and everyone knows it. The fact that these cameras are plainly used primarily for revenue generation by many jurisdictions has always rubbed me the wrong way. If there's a better idea for dealing with this problem let's go for it, but doing nothing isn't really an option.

[jfre81]

Red light cameras and other such automated "police work" is a scam. The reason it's a scam is because it's completely unenforceable. They can send you a ticket in the mail, and tell you that you have to pay money. But - no matter what they might claim or imply to the contrary - they can't:

-Deny you renewal of your registration, or your driver's license
-Impact your insurance
-Repossess your car
-Affect your credit rating

Or basically do anything besides keep sending you strongly-worded missives in your mail that you can chuck out with the rest of the junk.

If you pay it out of some sense of civic duty, that's on you.

Somewhere in a landfill there's mail from whoever manages the speed cameras on I-75 in Toledo with my name on it. I think they actually wanted $125. Gyaaaaahahahahah! I hope they weren't counting on that money in their next annual budget.

Now, Mr. Clutch is correct when he says more people get killed on the roadways here than anywhere else in the country, per capita, but it got that way whether there were red light cameras are not.

[baytownb]

Untrue, you are misreading the statute. The city gets to split half of the profit with the state. They write off far more than the cost of the camera equipment rental. They write off salaries, computers equipment, heck I have even seen electricity, exterminators and other things taken as expenses to reduce the amount they spend to the state. The trauma fund never gets fully funded because the state doesn't pay it out so they can say the books are balanced.

Originally Posted by Double L

In Texas, we have found a way to solidify that red light cameras cannot be used for profit. The money doesn't go to the local government operating the cameras, it is required to go to other sources.



https://www.txdot.gov/driver/laws/red-light/faqs.html

[baytownb]

yes other states have used it and I am told Austin is thinking of implementing it. You should be able to find it, I think one company calls it the Halo system.

Originally Posted by Mr. Clutch

This is a great idea, and honestly a better idea for Houston than the cameras would likely be. With that said, I've never heard of anywhere in the country implementing this - do they have this technology in any other states that you know of?

I'd love to see something like this though - the red light thing is a major safety issue and everyone knows it. The fact that these cameras are plainly used primarily for revenue generation by many jurisdictions has always rubbed me the wrong way. If there's a better idea for dealing with this problem let's go for it, but doing nothing isn't really an option.

[snackdog]

Enforcement of the red light tickets in Texas varies by city and county. Some counties will deny registration if fines are unpaid (for example, Dallas County).

[resonator]

Then they are somehow getting away with violating state law.