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Isn't the point to relieve congestion on the freeways?
Like I said early, Houston HOV/Park&Ride system takes around 250,000 people off freeway mainlanes. Yes it does slow down and it isn't the best system, but just think if we didn't have it and how congested freeways would be then.
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The majority of the people who work in Houston live in the burbs, do you want them to pay for the young loft dwellers to have cool transportation - or do we want to move people efficiently, reduce oil consumption, reduce pollution (although that isn't much of a real concern anymore), get the freeways flowing and alleviate the need to build additional freeway capacity?
The problem is, not a majority of people in the Houston metro work in the inner loop employment centers (downtown, uptown, greenway, and TMC).
It makes sense to build the LRT inside the loop and connect the largest employment centers, activity centers, and densfiying neighborhoods first. Otherwise, you build rail out to the suburbs and its a failure because suburbanites have to get on a bus to get around once they get into the city.
There will always be a need to build more freeways. It's mindboggling how much China is building freeways along with rail.
Like I said early, Houston HOV/Park&Ride system takes around 250,000 people off freeway mainlanes. Yes it does slow down and it isn't the best system, but just think if we didn't have it and how congested freeways would be then.
The problem is, not a majority of people in the Houston metro work in the inner loop employment centers (downtown, uptown, greenway, and TMC).
It makes sense to build the LRT inside the loop and connect the largest employment centers, activity centers, and densfiying neighborhoods first. Otherwise, you build rail out to the suburbs and its a failure because suburbanites have to get on a bus to get around once they get into the city.
There will always be a need to build more freeways. It's mindboggling how much China is building freeways along with rail.
I didn't recommend we do away with the HOV lanes - unless replaced with something superior.
Your second paragraph doesn't have any bearing on anything that I can determine.
So what if the suburbanites have to get on the bus once they get into the city - other than you might be concerned that they will not. But the park and ride uses buses so why wouldn't they?
China is building freeways because people didn't own cars in any number until the late 90's. I was in Beijing in 96 and it was mostly bicycles - millions of them. Your trying to tie two facts together that are unrelated.
"There will always be a need to build more freeways.." - so don't mitigate the problem but ignore it? The big problem in Houston is traffic on the freeways, particulary during rush hour. Not - how can we make the city cool or how do we best serve people who do not want to buy cars.
Possible solutions - telecommuting, flexible work hours and high speed access into and out of the city.
^Well, now what we do with the freeways might be another discussion. That might be where commuter rail comes into the equation. But believe it or not the freeways aren't the only transportation issue. If you commute that far for work, it's going to take more time to get home. Nobody owes you an easy 30-something mile commute any more than anybody owes inner city residents alternative means to get around. What makes you better? What makes your needs the most pressing for the city and region at large? I realize it's the biggest need for you, but this isn't just about you.
You can only build freeways so wide. Sure, the Katy Freeway flows well now -at great cost to redo something that was already there and functioning, if not optimally. But all this will do is drive more growth westward in Katy and beyond until it clogs up all over again. I give it 10 years tops.
They paved over a rail line that could've been used for commuter rail to do that project too. They spent what, over a billion dollars? To add how much capacity? 35,000 I think it was? That was just for one freeway in one direction too. But somebody wants to come and complain about the money spent on rail for X amount of riders? I guess it's not such a problem if you're one of the people taking advantage of it.
That's the whole problem here. It's what's best for me. Me, me, me. All the time. How about what's best for the entire region so we can all benefit in one way or another?
You can only build freeways so wide. Sure, the Katy Freeway flows well now -at great cost to redo something that was already there and functioning, if not optimally. But all this will do is drive more growth westward in Katy and beyond until it clogs up all over again. I give it 10 years tops.
The Katy Freeway Project has already done that, the growth Southwest of I10/99 is huge. Also, a proposed area called Cane Island (What Katy was called before being called KATY) Northwest of I10/1463 is a master planned community that was stalled due to the economic downturn, but you can rest assured it will begin to roll once the economy becomes favorable again for development.
On top of that, Brookshire is poised to become what Katy was 20 years ago, mainly due to the access that the Katy Freeway Project gave to the area. I10 will be back to being congested in less than ten years.
Why doesn't everybody attend community meetings to discuss this with METRO? Most of the community meetings just have people complaining about trivial stuff.
They can properly answer why METRO can't build underground. And yes, it has to do with the flooding issue. Yes, it's possible to make it so the underground rails don't flood. Yes, there is not enough money to do this. Yes, there almost isn't enough money to cover the current light rail expansion.
Why doesn't everybody attend community meetings to discuss this with METRO? Most of the community meetings just have people complaining about trivial stuff.
They can properly answer why METRO can't build underground. And yes, it has to do with the flooding issue. Yes, it's possible to make it so the underground rails don't flood. Yes, there is not enough money to do this. Yes, there almost isn't enough money to cover the current light rail expansion.
I don't think the systems needs to be underground though. If they want to do it right just make it elevated.
^Well, now what we do with the freeways might be another discussion. That might be where commuter rail comes into the equation. But believe it or not the freeways aren't the only transportation issue. If you commute that far for work, it's going to take more time to get home. Nobody owes you an easy 30-something mile commute any more than anybody owes inner city residents alternative means to get around. What makes you better? What makes your needs the most pressing for the city and region at large? I realize it's the biggest need for you, but this isn't just about you.
You can only build freeways so wide. Sure, the Katy Freeway flows well now -at great cost to redo something that was already there and functioning, if not optimally. But all this will do is drive more growth westward in Katy and beyond until it clogs up all over again. I give it 10 years tops.
They paved over a rail line that could've been used for commuter rail to do that project too. They spent what, over a billion dollars? To add how much capacity? 35,000 I think it was? That was just for one freeway in one direction too. But somebody wants to come and complain about the money spent on rail for X amount of riders? I guess it's not such a problem if you're one of the people taking advantage of it.
That's the whole problem here. It's what's best for me. Me, me, me. All the time. How about what's best for the entire region so we can all benefit in one way or another?
Way to jump to a conclusion...
I work at home, so I don't commute dork, so I don't care one way or the other - except I want tax money used as efficiently as possible.
So I guess we agree that the problem IS, me, me me - I see too many posts that want billions spent because light rail is "cool".
You want a high density city design - that's great except I don't think most people in the metro area agree with you. Therefore the suburbs exist and they have to be dealt with as a reality - unless I suppose - we are in your reality.
Back to being civil again - I'm just saying - we might save more resources (money, people's time, oil, air quality) with commuter rail vs. inner city rail. Especially if the plan is to keep with street level rail - which I rode and enjoyed for months but which had very few advantages over a bus.
it's all about the flooding no subways will be found here, monorail would work but it's very Houstonian to just want to spread out and make wider roads and rails on the ground vs in the air
^Well, now what we do with the freeways might be another discussion. That might be where commuter rail comes into the equation. But believe it or not the freeways aren't the only transportation issue. If you commute that far for work, it's going to take more time to get home. Nobody owes you an easy 30-something mile commute any more than anybody owes inner city residents alternative means to get around. What makes you better? What makes your needs the most pressing for the city and region at large? I realize it's the biggest need for you, but this isn't just about you.
You can only build freeways so wide. Sure, the Katy Freeway flows well now -at great cost to redo something that was already there and functioning, if not optimally. But all this will do is drive more growth westward in Katy and beyond until it clogs up all over again. I give it 10 years tops.
They paved over a rail line that could've been used for commuter rail to do that project too. They spent what, over a billion dollars? To add how much capacity? 35,000 I think it was? That was just for one freeway in one direction too. But somebody wants to come and complain about the money spent on rail for X amount of riders? I guess it's not such a problem if you're one of the people taking advantage of it.
That's the whole problem here. It's what's best for me. Me, me, me. All the time. How about what's best for the entire region so we can all benefit in one way or another?
The Katy Freeway debacle is part METRO's fault and part John Culberson. METRO didn't meet the deadlines to send in their reports for rail on I-10 (to TxDOT), and Culberson was not having rail (we all know and should hate John Culberson). Luckily, TxDOT did reinforce the middle columns for future rail.
I was driving into Houston yesterday from Katy, and NO ONE was using the tollway in the middle. The only time that it is used is during rush hour or when there is high volume. It would have been much smarter to have commuter rail down the middle. Especially on a nice day like yesterday. You don't think there would be families taking the train in for a "family trip" into the city for the day? I think there would be. I remember looking at one of the Katy Freeway plans a while ago, and it had rail in the middle, with an HOV in each direction. Basically, the same freeway minus the tollway.
Katy commuters are going to be real jealous of the Cypress/NW Harris County commuters once 290 is finished. They get rail in the corridor with 290's reconstruction.
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Originally Posted by HookTheBrotherUp
The Katy Freeway Project has already done that, the growth Southwest of I10/99 is huge. Also, a proposed area called Cane Island (What Katy was called before being called KATY) Northwest of I10/1463 is a master planned community that was stalled due to the economic downturn, but you can rest assured it will begin to roll once the economy becomes favorable again for development.
On top of that, Brookshire is poised to become what Katy was 20 years ago, mainly due to the access that the Katy Freeway Project gave to the area. I10 will be back to being congested in less than ten years.
I-10 is not going to be the only option though. The Westpark Tollway is going to continue west and turn to the north through Waller County and connect with I-10. Not to mention the Grand Parkway.
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they are too smart for that
