Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > Houston
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-11-2010, 04:13 PM
 
5,976 posts, read 15,216,576 times
Reputation: 6709

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by simetime View Post
I really could not compare the two honestly b/c pittsburgh's "Subway" goes under the river to only three stops (casino, PNC Park and Heinz field) the sad thing about it is that we have bridges that could have been used and would have been more cost efficent.

Why could'nt it be raised over the streets?
At least the recently completed I10 construction; according to TxDOT, provisions were made for the future addition of a rail line in the center of the freeway. What those provisions are, I don't know, but supposedly the freeway is constructed so that they can later retrofit it with rail. I guess maybe some sort of monorail, I can't envision standard gauge rail up there, but I could be wrong.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-11-2010, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Now in Houston!
922 posts, read 3,853,297 times
Reputation: 671
Putting aside the Ayn Rand objectivist rants, Randian is completely correct in the assertion that public transportation is not an inexpensive way to to move people from place-to-place. There are good reasons to expand public transportation, (better for the environment, etc.) but cost efficiency is not one of them.

Case in point is NYC Transit, the agency that runs the NYC subway and bus systems. This system has - by a huge margin - the most riders, highest fare revenues and the highest percentage of residents using the system. Ridership has increased in recent years and as any NYC commuter will tell you, the trains and buses are at or above capacity most of the day.

Even in this highly utilized system, fares only bring in half of the revenue needed to operate the system, the rest comes from siphoning off the profits collected by Bridge and Tunnel tolls plus collection of 9 separate dedicated local taxes, including a recently enacted payroll tax on employers in the region. Residents and employers in the entire 12-county region, including suburbanites who don't use it, pay dearly to subsidize the system.

A quick analysis of the MTA annual report shows that it has operating expenditures of $8.7 billion per year (and rising). NYCT provides approximately 2 billion passenger trips per year. This means that the actual cost to transport a passenger via subway or bus is more than $4 per trip! However, the average fare collected is closer to $2. Raising the fare to $4 is not an option because not only is it political suicide, but at $8 per round trip, the economics start to tip in favor of automobile transportation, which is just not an option for the city's infrastructure and most of its residents.

It seems that Houston's car-centric transportation infrastructure is actually more efficient than one based on public transportation and I believe that this is a big component of Houston's low cost of living and business friendliness. Also, cars make sense in Houston because it is built for it, unlike denser and older Northeastern cities.

Bottom line: Public transportation systems require taxpayer subsidies, so any consideration of a vastly expanded public transportation infrastructure in Houston must include the question of how much local residents are willing to pay in increased taxes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-11-2010, 06:03 PM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,221 posts, read 12,281,739 times
Reputation: 3554
Quote:
Originally Posted by HookTheBrotherUp View Post
At least the recently completed I10 construction; according to TxDOT, provisions were made for the future addition of a rail line in the center of the freeway. What those provisions are, I don't know, but supposedly the freeway is constructed so that they can later retrofit it with rail. I guess maybe some sort of monorail, I can't envision standard gauge rail up there, but I could be wrong.
I will admit that I do not know alot about Houston other than it is flat and a monorail system would proably work there
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-11-2010, 06:07 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,380 posts, read 26,782,631 times
Reputation: 4580
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpstaterInBklyn View Post
Putting aside the Ayn Rand objectivist rants, Randian is completely correct in the assertion that public transportation is not an inexpensive way to to move people from place-to-place. There are good reasons to expand public transportation, (better for the environment, etc.) but cost efficiency is not one of them.

Case in point is NYC Transit, the agency that runs the NYC subway and bus systems. This system has - by a huge margin - the most riders, highest fare revenues and the highest percentage of residents using the system. Ridership has increased in recent years and as any NYC commuter will tell you, the trains and buses are at or above capacity most of the day.

Even in this highly utilized system, fares only bring in half of the revenue needed to operate the system, the rest comes from siphoning off the profits collected by Bridge and Tunnel tolls plus collection of 9 separate dedicated local taxes, including a recently enacted payroll tax on employers in the region. Residents and employers in the entire 12-county region, including suburbanites who don't use it, pay dearly to subsidize the system.

A quick analysis of the MTA annual report shows that it has operating expenditures of $8.7 billion per year (and rising). NYCT provides approximately 2 billion passenger trips per year. This means that the actual cost to transport a passenger via subway or bus is more than $4 per trip! However, the average fare collected is closer to $2. Raising the fare to $4 is not an option because not only is it political suicide, but at $8 per round trip, the economics start to tip in favor of automobile transportation, which is just not an option for the city's infrastructure and most of its residents.

It seems that Houston's car-centric transportation infrastructure is actually more efficient than one based on public transportation and I believe that this is a big component of Houston's low cost of living and business friendliness. Also, cars make sense in Houston because it is built for it, unlike denser and older Northeastern cities.

Bottom line: Public transportation systems require taxpayer subsidies, so any consideration of a vastly expanded public transportation infrastructure in Houston must include the question of how much local residents are willing to pay in increased taxes.
The reason the Fares keep rising is the Corruption has been allowed to continue.......no one has cracked down on it. Although ppl are starting to get angry. Politicians like the Billionaire who owns the city haven't donee anything serious about it yet...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > Houston

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:16 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top