Why does Houston think its not a southern city? (Pasadena: suburbs, horses)

[piyf]

There's more Rednecks in Colorado or Oklahoma or Arkansas.

[Spade]

Originally Posted by AlGreen

I love the way some of you reference the misguided perceptions of Texas as if it were the gospel truth...I've never met a southeasterner who actually knows Houston and did not recognize it as a southern city.

"Texas is Texas" is such a copout. Especially considering the fact that Houston doesn't really look, feel, act, or even talk like the rest of the state. I can't speak for others, but there is an overwhelming southeastern-like vibe I get in Houston which is a strong contrast to the more rugged, frontier, ranch atmosphere of those areas east of 45. And this is coming from someone who originally hails from the Savannah River Valley, so take that for what it's worth.

Houston is a southern city, and no, not just geographically.

No. It's not a copout. The entire states of Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, South Carolina, and w/e are Southern. Same cannot be said for Texas. As basically Vicman broke it down. Texas has many characteristics of other regions inside of it's borders. Texans relate to being Texan more than they relate to anything else. Now is the majority of Texas Southern? Yes. But are there parts of Texas that do not relate to being Southern? Yes.

[AlGreen]

Originally Posted by Spade

No. It's not a copout. The entire states of Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, South Carolina, and w/e are Southern. Same cannot be said for Texas. As basically Vicman broke it down. Texas has many characteristics of other regions inside of it's borders. Texans relate to being Texan more than they relate to anything else. Now is the majority of Texas Southern? Yes. But are there parts of Texas that do not relate to being Southern? Yes.

What I mean is that saying tends to imply that Texas is some sort of monolithic region with a shared culture between its borders, and it isn't. If Texas is Texas, then Louisiana is Louisiana, Georgia is Georgia, and Florida is just Florida. I've said all of this before.

East Texans identify culturally more with the southeast than they do with their own state, and West Texans have many parallels with New Mexico. The only part of the state where "Texas is Texas" applies, is that strip in the central parts of the state that are truly their own unique region.

[Spade]

What I'm basically saying is that Texans including East Texans do not rep the South as much as you think they do. They rep Texas first but do acknowledge they are in the South. You will quickly hear them they say Texas raised instead of Southern raised or 3rd or 4th generation Texan not 3rd or 4th generation Southerner.

[Brewzerr68]

Originally Posted by AlGreen

I love the way some of you reference the misguided perceptions of Texas as if it were the gospel truth...I've never met a southeasterner who actually knows Houston and did not recognize it as a southern city.

"Texas is Texas" is such a copout. Especially considering the fact that Houston doesn't really look, feel, act, or even talk like the rest of the state. I can't speak for others, but there is an overwhelming southeastern-like vibe I get in Houston which is a strong contrast to the more rugged, frontier, ranch atmosphere of those areas east of 45. And this is coming from someone who originally hails from the Savannah River Valley, so take that for what it's worth.

Houston is a southern city, and no, not just geographically.

I'm really curious if you currently live, or in the past have lived in Houston. And if so, what part of the city? Sorry, but your location is a little vague. The only parts of Houston that could pass for Southern would be the Eastern suburbs (Pasadena, Deer Park, Baytown etc.). That side of town is culturally and architecturally very different from the rest of the city. As I mentioned earlier, I grew up in the inner-loop and in no way whatsoever would that be considered Southern by a true Southerner, despite the abundance of live oaks and magnolias. As for "I've never met a southeasterner who actually knows Houston and did not recognize it as a southern city"... well, I've even been called a "yankee" before by people in places like Louisiana, Georgia, and even Waco when I've told them I was from Houston (which is totally ridiculous, but I would hope that you get my point). Even the West side burbs and the Clear Lake area don't really feel Southern.

Once again let me make it clear that I have nothing against the South, and would have no problem at all conceding to your points.... if Houston were actually a true Southern city. My argument is strictly for the sake of accuracy. You mention the "more rugged, frontier, ranch atmosphere of those areas east of 45". I have no idea what that means, but I'm assuming you meant WEST of I-45, since EAST of I-45 would be the piney woods, which is actually pretty authentically Southern. I'd go a little further West than the I-45 corridor for that rugged ranch thing. More like West of the Pecos River.

I've heard it put like this before in another one of these debates: "Houston is Southern in the same way Chicago is Midwestern"... and I'd say that sums it up best. Houston is a large metropolitan area made up of people from all over the globe. This can be statistically proven if you're in doubt. I am a native Houstonian, but you'd be pretty hard-pressed these days to find many of us in Houston.

And no, the "Texas is Texas" sentiment is definitely not a "cop-out". It's a fact. Texas is where cultures collide and blend. It's where South meets Southwest and Great Plains meets the Gulf Coast. It's where Mexican culture is just as paramount as cowboy culture to the overall state identity.

I will give you this... Houston really doesn't "look, feel, act, or even talk like the rest of the state". Neither does Dallas. It's because they are both big metro areas of 6 million-plus residents each, and both cities are major melting pots of national and international culture. Even Austin and San Antonio are starting to get this way, and those 2 cities are MUCH more Texan than Houston or Dallas.

Whether you like it or not, Texas really is uniquely Texan. Sorry, but that's just the plain truth.

[blkgiraffe]

Originally Posted by AlGreen

What I mean is that saying tends to imply that Texas is some sort of monolithic region with a shared culture between its borders, and it isn't. If Texas is Texas, then Louisiana is Louisiana, Georgia is Georgia, and Florida is just Florida. I've said all of this before.

East Texans identify culturally more with the southeast than they do with their own state, and West Texans have many parallels with New Mexico. The only part of the state where "Texas is Texas" applies, is that strip in the central parts of the state that are truly their own unique region.

Believe what you want. I have my own experiences as I've been all up and through the southeast; with southerners reaction to me being from Texas. Lots of southerners don't see us as being part of the south.

Texas is Texas because unlike the rest of the south; we have many cultural regions and influences. The state is culturally, racially, ethnically, and historically diverse and entirely too big. Labeling an entire state based off your own personal beliefs if selfish. Try going to Lubbock, Austin, Abilene, Midland, Amarillo and other places and tell them they're southern. We can believe what we want, but others don't have to share our opinion. If it was as clear cut as you make it out be; this discussion wouldn't be so heavily discussed. In the end, Texas is Texas.

[Spade]

I don't know how many times I have to hear "I thought we were south until I went to Mississippi or Alabama or Georgia. It's clear that Texas is different.

[Brewzerr68]

Originally Posted by ahzzie

I have verifiable proof that there are rednecks in California. They just hide them better than we do.

I can vouch for that. I lived in L.A. 2 different times and there are even rednecks there (Fontana, San Bernardino, Highland). Bakersfield is notoriously redneck, as is much of the Central Valley. I even encountered a lot of redneck attitude in Orange County. They aren't very well-hidden when you're there, but yes... very well-hidden by the media, motion picture industry, and television sitcoms.

Rednecks are everywhere in America. Even the Northeast. Hell, even NYC! Anyone who has ever spent any time in the outer boroughs can attest to this. The accents may vary from region to region, but that same old god-fearin', gun-totin', bible-thumpin' good ol' boy mentality remains the same no matter where you go.

[blkgiraffe]

Redneck is pretty much southern slang for trailer trash. So yes, Rednecks are worldwide.

[AlGreen]

How do we allow ourselves to get sucked into this debate EVERY time?

Is anyone keeping count?