Fondren SW Houston Surprise (Sugar Land, The Woodlands: low income, apartment complexes, high crime)

[rb4browns]

Originally Posted by lostcauserammy

MySykes, it seems that most of the crime generated in this area is usually the black on black crime and frequently seen in the apartments. I've seen many people of the Jewish faith while I have been looking at the area and yes, they seem to not look worried at all.

That's because some of us have a Smith and Wesson surprise in our pockets just in case

[dv1033]

Originally Posted by lostcauserammy

Modster, I agree with you on this. It's so weird to me (keep in mind I lived in the burbs all my life) that in Houston it is a block by block adventure. Where I grew up, everyone was white and middle class though my family was not white, we fit in. Looking at the market areas now, I see so much great stuff next to junk. Westbury is a good looking neighborhood, and I think there will be a spillover. Even if the apartments don't go away, then at least the neighborhoods will still maintain a level of value, and provide homes for the young professionals who are not yet ready to make a 250k+ commitment somewhere else near downtown or the med center.

I wouldnt consider Westbury a part of the Fondren SW area.

[BBall Coach]

When I first moved to Houston as a small child, this was the area that I lived in for about 3 years. This was 20 years ago and it was kind of a rough area back then and has only deteriorated since. I would definitely consider a different area if it were my money, but if you feel comfortable there after checking it out and thoroughly doing your homework and you find a home that you absolutely love, don't let us stop you. Be forewarned though, the area is not for the faint of heart. Always be aware of your surroundings and be cautious at all times. Lots of people who end up victims of crimes don't pay attention to the warning signs. I would also definitely be mindful of where I shopped in that area, especially in the evening.

I really can't imagine that area having any sort of revival. What you see is what you're going to get. Hopefully I'm wrong. There are a lot of good people who live over there, but the criminal element is also very strong. The schools aren't great either to put it nicely. If I had school aged children and lived over there, I would definitely find an alternative.

[modster]

Originally Posted by dv1033

I wouldnt consider Westbury a part of the Fondren SW area.

The Western border of Westbury adjoins the eastern border of Fondren SW. They are two separate areas, but they are adjacent, hence the potential for spillover.

[modster]

Originally Posted by BBall Coach

When I first moved to Houston as a small child, this was the area that I lived in for about 3 years. This was 20 years ago and it was kind of a rough area back then and has only deteriorated since. I would definitely consider a different area if it were my money, but if you feel comfortable there after checking it out and thoroughly doing your homework and you find a home that you absolutely love, don't let us stop you. Be forewarned though, the area is not for the faint of heart. Always be aware of your surroundings and be cautious at all times. Lots of people who end up victims of crimes don't pay attention to the warning signs. I would also definitely be mindful of where I shopped in that area, especially in the evening.

I really can't imagine that area having any sort of revival. What you see is what you're going to get. Hopefully I'm wrong. There are a lot of good people who live over there, but the criminal element is also very strong. The schools aren't great either to put it nicely. If I had school aged children and lived over there, I would definitely find an alternative.

I don't dispute any of what you're saying. It is all true, however, it still doesn't necessarily preclude the potential for a turn around, although I don't see a significant one in the very near future. I just don't think FSW is at that turn around point just yet.

I live in an area that has similar challenges. The fledgling turn around I have seen happen there could also happen in FSW at some point, although we do have the benefit of being closer in than FSW, which that distance factor is absolutely crucial.

I often hear older people in my neighborhood naively predict that gas prices will bring people "back in" from the suburbs. Certainly there may be some, but they will be the exception and not the rule. Areas like this will not turn around that way. People in the suburbs like their suburban environment and transitional neighborhoods tend to be the antithesis of all things they hold dear in a neighborhood. Okay, that may be an exaggeration, but you get the point. While I am a city person I grasp the concept that is missed by a lot of inner loopers that many suburbanites live there b/c they like it better not because they are priced out of the inner loop. That audience isn't really all that interested in moving in, and if they do, it probably won't be in the capacity of "urban pioneer." FSW will have to look elsewhere for an audience that might bolster values and breathe new life into it.

As a comparison, the upswing in my area has come primarily from more urban people. Buyers who want to live as close in as they can, have to have an architecturally interesting home or a home with some character, and like diverse neighborhoods. There are very few that ended up over there that set out to live off the Gulf Freeway and Broadway, (I mean really, who sets out asking for that?) But many younger Professionals have ended up there and seem to be happy with their choice. It is usually a bit of a "process" getting there, and the same will probably hold true when/if FSW turns around. For people with less than $250,000 to spend, especially less than $200,000, that are not willing to buy just anything, suddenly find themselves priced out of almost the entire western half of the inner loop. Montrose, River Oaks/Highland Village area/Afton Oaks, forget it. Can't go into Rice/West U obviously. Inner loop Braeswood is too high. Lazybrook & Timbergrove on the northwest side of the loop are high too, You can still find something in the Heights in the low $200's but options are limited and the houses are going to be small. Not everybody wants to or can go into the smaller house. If you can't squeeze into 1,100 sq ft, then you are pretty much screwed. Garden Oaks is even becoming cost prohibitive.

This is the audience of frustrated I'm-priced-out-of-everything-I-want urban buyers that has now turned east, into Eastwood and other places in 77023, Lindale Park, SW into Westbury, NW into Oak Forest, and SE into my area.

They take on areas that others find objectionable b/c quite frankly, when you are talking about shifty foot traffic & that sort of thing, go to uber-trendy midtown or Montrose, they are far from free of it. If you are accustomed to living in the city you are used to things like that and used to taking the common sense precautions about crime etc. It isn't as disconcerting as it would be to someone moving from say, the Woodlands. Getting a house you really love in an area that may not be an ideal distance, but an acceptable distance from downtown can seem like a prize find after viewing absolute junk for two-something in more popular urban neighborhoods. (Neighborhoods that also still have their share of urban issues too).

So to make a short story long, the key for FSW is when will the distance become more "acceptable" to this urban audience? That is one of the crucial factors.

The same holds true for other neighborhoods awaiting revival, be it Sharpstown, Inwood, whatever, the same principle holds true. It is my opinion, and that is all it is, the competition from closer in neighborhoods on the east side will draw more of that audience in the near future. Those areas seem to be "next in line" to be the up and coming neighborhoods and the farther out (relatively speaking) areas on the southwest and northwest sides will have to wait their turn to get on the gentrification bus.

[nikku]

Originally Posted by modster

I don't dispute any of what you're saying. It is all true, however, it still doesn't necessarily preclude the potential for a turn around, although I don't see a significant one in the very near future. I just don't think FSW is at that turn around point just yet.

I live in an area that has similar challenges. The fledgling turn around I have seen happen there could also happen in FSW at some point, although we do have the benefit of being closer in than FSW, which that distance factor is absolutely crucial.

I often hear older people in my neighborhood naively predict that gas prices will bring people "back in" from the suburbs. Certainly there may be some, but they will be the exception and not the rule. Areas like this will not turn around that way. People in the suburbs like their suburban environment and transitional neighborhoods tend to be the antithesis of all things they hold dear in a neighborhood. Okay, that may be an exaggeration, but you get the point. While I am a city person I grasp the concept that is missed by a lot of inner loopers that many suburbanites live there b/c they like it better not because they are priced out of the inner loop. That audience isn't really all that interested in moving in, and if they do, it probably won't be in the capacity of "urban pioneer." FSW will have to look elsewhere for an audience that might bolster values and breathe new life into it.

As a comparison, the upswing in my area has come primarily from more urban people. Buyers who want to live as close in as they can, have to have an architecturally interesting home or a home with some character, and like diverse neighborhoods. There are very few that ended up over there that set out to live off the Gulf Freeway and Broadway, (I mean really, who sets out asking for that?) But many younger Professionals have ended up there and seem to be happy with their choice. It is usually a bit of a "process" getting there, and the same will probably hold true when/if FSW turns around. For people with less than $250,000 to spend, especially less than $200,000, that are not willing to buy just anything, suddenly find themselves priced out of almost the entire western half of the inner loop. Montrose, River Oaks/Highland Village area/Afton Oaks, forget it. Can't go into Rice/West U obviously. Inner loop Braeswood is too high. Lazybrook & Timbergrove on the northwest side of the loop are high too, You can still find something in the Heights in the low $200's but options are limited and the houses are going to be small. Not everybody wants to or can go into the smaller house. If you can't squeeze into 1,100 sq ft, then you are pretty much screwed. Garden Oaks is even becoming cost prohibitive.

This is the audience of frustrated I'm-priced-out-of-everything-I-want urban buyers that has now turned east, into Eastwood and other places in 77023, Lindale Park, SW into Westbury, NW into Oak Forest, and SE into my area.

They take on areas that others find objectionable b/c quite frankly, when you are talking about shifty foot traffic & that sort of thing, go to uber-trendy midtown or Montrose, they are far from free of it. If you are accustomed to living in the city you are used to things like that and used to taking the common sense precautions about crime etc. It isn't as disconcerting as it would be to someone moving from say, the Woodlands. Getting a house you really love in an area that may not be an ideal distance, but an acceptable distance from downtown can seem like a prize find after viewing absolute junk for two-something in more popular urban neighborhoods. (Neighborhoods that also still have their share of urban issues too).

So to make a short story long, the key for FSW is when will the distance become more "acceptable" to this urban audience? That is one of the crucial factors.

The same holds true for other neighborhoods awaiting revival, be it Sharpstown, Inwood, whatever, the same principle holds true. It is my opinion, and that is all it is, the competition from closer in neighborhoods on the east side will draw more of that audience in the near future. Those areas seem to be "next in line" to be the up and coming neighborhoods and the farther out (relatively speaking) areas on the southwest and northwest sides will have to wait their turn to get on the gentrification bus.

While you're generally right modster, I'd add one other element that hasn't even been considered: in my opinion, the Sharpstown/Fondren SW area is the most interesting part of Houston. It is certainly the most culturally diverse area of Houston (where else in the world can you get heart-of-Louisiana home cooked cajun right next door to authentic Pho right next to authentic Chinese dumplings right next to a Pakistani market?) not to mention one of the busiest areas. There always seems to be something happening, day and night (go to Harwin on any given Saturday and see what I mean). I've been living in Sharpstown for the past 3 years (right behind Sharpstown Mall) and only recently have moved out after getting married. There are several things that I will really miss about that area: the food, the shops, the diversity of cultures and the community feel. If I were still single, I would seriously consider buying a house in Sharpstown, as the neighborhoods really aren't bad at all, away from the apartments.

[bamba_boy]

Originally Posted by nikku

While you're generally right modster, I'd add one other element that hasn't even been considered: in my opinion, the Sharpstown/Fondren SW area is the most interesting part of Houston. It is certainly the most culturally diverse area of Houston (where else in the world can you get heart-of-Louisiana home cooked cajun right next door to authentic Pho right next to authentic Chinese dumplings right next to a Pakistani market?) not to mention one of the busiest areas. There always seems to be something happening, day and night (go to Harwin on any given Saturday and see what I mean). I've been living in Sharpstown for the past 3 years (right behind Sharpstown Mall) and only recently have moved out after getting married. There are several things that I will really miss about that area: the food, the shops, the diversity of cultures and the community feel. If I were still single, I would seriously consider buying a house in Sharpstown, as the neighborhoods really aren't bad at all, away from the apartments.

I've lived in Houston for some 15 years. I started out renting inside the loop near West University but quickly realized I could never afford a large house for a wife and kids there. I've upgraded the size and quality of my house ever since from there to Westbury to Sharpstown to Lakes of Fondren (Fondren SW area). I've visited friends all over other parts of town and adjoining suburbs from Sugar LandPearland to The Woodlands and while other parts of town are trendier but close-in SW's amazing international flair and concentration of excitement at an affordable price just aren't there.

I think that the area may very well go the way of Bellaire -> Westbury -> FondrenSW/Sharpstown, esp if the apts continue to be upgraded. The housing stock is solid midwest in Sharpstown for the more conservative types and some just amazing George Jetson classic-modern stuff in Fondren SW for the edgier folks.

This is kind of an absurd example but there is a restaurant near my house on Bissonnett that advertizes "Africa-TexMex" fusion food (Mexigerian :-) )
But it's real a lot of fun. Where else can an international oil guy get a bowl of goat pepper soup cooked by real Nigerians from the Niger Delta?

The negative aspect of close-in SW Houston has been well documented and when I bought my house there was a horrible abandonned apt complex about 1/2 mile away. Fortunately, at least in my immediate neighborhood between Gessner & Fondren, Belfort and W Airport that place was torn down, a major Houston Police Dept substation is being built, and the remaining apt complexes are getting some nice restorations with both Katrina/Rita and soon Ike federal funds. These involve kicking out the crackheads while they're being renovated and at least in theory the rents and screening can be improved on the much nicer units when they're done. The first few completed have shown remarkable improvement both in quality of construction and in tenants.

Another great aspect of this area is that the SW freeway runs right through the middle of it with Park n Rides for the express buses and carpools down the diamond lane. This makes for less than 20 minutes to downtown, 10 minutes to inner loop if you're in that lane or leave early enough for the main lanes. Essentially that adds up to inner loop lifestyle with outer suburb prices. BTW, I shop at that Fiesta at the corner of Fondren & Belfort all the time as a middle aged white man and have never had an unkind word said to me. Folks have even been kind when I went to Riddims next door on Sunday Family Day for some hot reggae music!

Another real cool thing about the area is that there are two lakes in the area, actually inside the city limits of Houston, with houses built on them. My own house is right on the larger of the Lake Fondren's (see picture: this is the view of my "back yard" into the common area on the lake).

[modster]

Very good points. It is good to see these other perspectives from people that live in these areas.

[texas7]

Originally Posted by lostcauserammy

MySykes, it seems that most of the crime generated in this area is usually the black on black crime and frequently seen in the apartments. I've seen many people of the Jewish faith while I have been looking at the area and yes, they seem to not look worried at all.

They should be worried - black on black crime is awful - and certainly doesn't make it any less of a crime.

[ahzzie]

I live in the Sharpstown area as well and I love it. Lately I've seen tons of families with their kids just out for evening strolls in my neighborhood which to me is a very good sign. I am acquainted with most of the neighbors on my street and we watch out for each other especially when one of us is out of town. I've been here since 04 and have no plans of moving anytime soon.