Why doesn't Houston take more pride in its appearance? (Dallas: sales, house)

[C2H (ComingtoHouston)]

Originally Posted by West Side Houston

Don't compare Las Vegas to Houston....please. Las Vegas is VERY small in comparasion to Houston. Our Uptown/Galleria district alongs is bigger than the strip. We have many beautiful areas in Houston. Memorial, River Oaks, Cinco Ranch, Sugar Land, The Villages...etc. Houston is the 4th largest city in the country. And like every major city, you will have areas that aren't Vegas or Disneyland. And FYI, I lived in Chicago and their roads are HORRIBLE. Potholes EVERYONE...even on the freeways! Los Angeles has some of the UGLIEST neighborhoods on EARTH! And their traffice is THE WORST..I lived their too. In Chicago the violence is off the scales. Houston for being such a huge city is awesome compared to these other places. I wonder if you took a drive the hoods of Las Vegas...don't think so. You didn't see the REAL Vegas. Also Vegas has unemployment rates of 13%...they can keep the cute carpet in the airport, thank you.

I dare all the people bitching about Houston this and Houston that to MOVE. I bet you any money, you will come back crying and regretting you left!

Well be that as it may. Las Vegas may have alot of rundown, crime- ridden areas but when most people think of Vegas, they think of the strip. The strip is beautiful with the grand hotels, colorful lights, and entertainment options. I guess that's why Las Vegas gets more hype.

Houston does have its nice areas. If I-45 looked like Katy Freeway or West Loop, i'd have no complaints. I consider the I-45 corridor to be the main artery of Houston because it connects downtown and both airports. Yes, Uptown/Galleria, Memorial, Allen Pkwy, and Energy Cooridors area are nicer faces to Houston, but 9/10 people will see hideous I-45 when traveling. Coming from Hobby, people will see the ugly Broadway and Telephone Roads. Ever heard of the saying "The first impression is the last impression?" Well the shoe definitely fits.

Although the tree planting off the freeways do help buff out some of the eyesores, it's not done on 45 enough to help fix the problem. Between downtown and Clearlake looks like a nuclear explosion. Same goes for the northside (North Freeway) between 610 and The Woodlands.

I love Houston and normally am one of the first to defend it, but i would like to see Houston do better, that's all. Why can't they come up with enough money to update the airport? Why can't areas outside of the rich areas have better care? I still stand by my claim earlier that other cities (with exception of Detroit and Philadelphia) are able to hide their blighted areas a little better than Houston. Take Dallas for example, coming into Dallas from 45 south is hideous, but it doesn't really even feel like you're in the city yet at the point of Oak Cliffe until you get downtown. From that point on, most of everything looks organized and well kept, esp off 75/N Central Expwy.

[jfre81]

You've still lost me on this one, and I think it still has to do with the fact that your main "role model" for us here is Las Vegas of all places. The place that has no economy to speak of anymore outside of tourism and is making a living on sucking you in with all the lights and bells and whistles. The most inauthentic place in the United States of America. They hide what's unsightly there because their survival depends on the ability to not scare off tourists.

Oh, and those slot machines at the airport are probably the lowest paying out of any gambling devices in Vegas, and anyone actually playing those have truly nothing better to do with their money because they might as well be at the blackjack table splitting tens.

[West Side Houston]

Originally Posted by C2H (ComingtoHouston)

Well be that as it may. Las Vegas may have alot of rundown, crime- ridden areas but when most people think of Vegas, they think of the strip. The strip is beautiful with the grand hotels, colorful lights, and entertainment options. I guess that's why Las Vegas gets more hype.

Houston does have its nice areas. If I-45 looked like Katy Freeway or West Loop, i'd have no complaints. I consider the I-45 corridor to be the main artery of Houston because it connects downtown and both airports. Yes, Uptown/Galleria, Memorial, Allen Pkwy, and Energy Cooridors area are nicer faces to Houston, but 9/10 people will see hideous I-45 when traveling. Coming from Hobby, people will see the ugly Broadway and Telephone Roads. Ever heard of the saying "The first impression is the last impression?" Well the shoe definitely fits.

Although the tree planting off the freeways do help buff out some of the eyesores, it's not done on 45 enough to help fix the problem. Between downtown and Clearlake looks like a nuclear explosion. Same goes for the northside (North Freeway) between 610 and The Woodlands.

I love Houston and normally am one of the first to defend it, but i would like to see Houston do better, that's all. Why can't they come up with enough money to update the airport? Why can't areas outside of the rich areas have better care? I still stand by my claim earlier that other cities (with exception of Detroit and Philadelphia) are able to hide their blighted areas a little better than Houston. Take Dallas for example, coming into Dallas from 45 south is hideous, but it doesn't really even feel like you're in the city yet at the point of Oak Cliffe until you get downtown. From that point on, most of everything looks organized and well kept, esp off 75/N Central Expwy.

Totally understand your point. However, no huge city is perfect. Even Paris has some of the ugliest neighborhoods in Europe. But we can always work to make it better, I agree.

[West Side Houston]

Originally Posted by jfre81

You've still lost me on this one, and I think it still has to do with the fact that your main "role model" for us here is Las Vegas of all places. The place that has no economy to speak of anymore outside of tourism and is making a living on sucking you in with all the lights and bells and whistles. The most inauthentic place in the United States of America. They hide what's unsightly there because their survival depends on the ability to not scare off tourists.

Oh, and those slot machines at the airport are probably the lowest paying out of any gambling devices in Vegas, and anyone actually playing those have truly nothing better to do with their money because they might as well be at the blackjack table splitting tens.

Well said!

[MrMcCoySays]

You wanna know what would change things drastically? Clean up the trash and keep the landscape cut. When I was driving on I-45, the billboards didn't bother me one bit. It was the wild grass covered in grocery bags, sonic cups, broken glass, and beer cans that looked kinda sad.

Now if you want to hide all those stores and stuff, the answer is better trees that grow faster. Cuz those retarded pines aint the answer.

[Malvie]

Originally Posted by C2H (ComingtoHouston)

Well be that as it may. Las Vegas may have alot of rundown, crime- ridden areas but when most people think of Vegas, they think of the strip. The strip is beautiful with the grand hotels, colorful lights, and entertainment options. I guess that's why Las Vegas gets more hype.

Houston does have its nice areas. If I-45 looked like Katy Freeway or West Loop, i'd have no complaints. I consider the I-45 corridor to be the main artery of Houston because it connects downtown and both airports. Yes, Uptown/Galleria, Memorial, Allen Pkwy, and Energy Cooridors area are nicer faces to Houston, but 9/10 people will see hideous I-45 when traveling. Coming from Hobby, people will see the ugly Broadway and Telephone Roads. Ever heard of the saying "The first impression is the last impression?" Well the shoe definitely fits.

Although the tree planting off the freeways do help buff out some of the eyesores, it's not done on 45 enough to help fix the problem. Between downtown and Clearlake looks like a nuclear explosion. Same goes for the northside (North Freeway) between 610 and The Woodlands.

I love Houston and normally am one of the first to defend it, but i would like to see Houston do better, that's all. Why can't they come up with enough money to update the airport? Why can't areas outside of the rich areas have better care? I still stand by my claim earlier that other cities (with exception of Detroit and Philadelphia) are able to hide their blighted areas a little better than Houston. Take Dallas for example, coming into Dallas from 45 south is hideous, but it doesn't really even feel like you're in the city yet at the point of Oak Cliffe until you get downtown. From that point on, most of everything looks organized and well kept, esp off 75/N Central Expwy.

You're really not comparing apples to apples, are you?

I lived in Dallas for 20 years; I was raised there.

Coming in on 45 south from Houston, that is the flood plain and the Trinity River bottoms. It's not pretty. It has no scenic value. It just "is". That area of town is the equivalent to some of the eastern parts of Houston, over by the ship channel. You like the way Central Expressway looks north of downtown, but that's the Dallas equivalent of the Katy Freeway around Memorial or the West Loop, not 45 North. Frankly, I think both the Katy and the West Loop are more attractive than Central.

The area around Love Field has been "iffy" for decades. Just to the east of Love Field is Oak Lawn, the Dallas equivalent of Montrose. I've seen both exhaustively and have lived in both. Not sure one is "nicer" than the other; both are "interesting". However, if you go down Denton Dr. just outside Love Field, it's as bad as anything 45 N has to offer. Ditto Harry Hines. The area around Mockingbird and Harry Hines has had a strip of adult businesses for years (bookstores, theaters, strip joints, massage parlors, the works). Maple Ave. from Love Field headed downtown isn't great, either. Most going to downtown from Love Field are going to go to Harry Hines, which features the aforementioned adult section, a railroad track, a power line, Parkland Hospital (not terrible), and a blighted area behind the Trade Center (you feel like you're driving down an alley, even though you're not) before you get to the new stuff by the American Airlines Center.

Coming out of DFW, if you're going to downtown Dallas or downtown Ft. Worth, you're going to get on 183. I see no (none, zero, zip, nada) difference between the views on 183 and the views on 45 North, other than the fact that 45N is a bigger, more modern freeway. 183 goes to Texas Stadium, then turns and becomes Carpenter Freeway, which goes to a merge with Stemmons. The length of Carpenter Freeway is river bottom and industrial wasteland (reminds me of 10 East out of downtown Houston). What's to like about that?

Atlanta's airport ingress and egress is through one of the grittiest parts of town; you just can't see Hapeville because of the natural topography. Not much we can do about that in Houston.

Denver International Airport is out in the middle of nowhere. It's a wheat field. I mean, I guess if you like that sort of thing it's ok. It just looks like -nothing- to me. To build an equivalent here, we'd have to go to Waverly, Brenham or Columbus. Even then, not sure how long it would last.

Lambert in St. Louis, O'Hare in Chicago, La Guardia, Newark, Philadelphia, Logan---all gritty (pseudonym for "just plain ugly").

I'll admit, I wish we had the money to keep it cleaner, mowed, beautiful, etc. Me, I don't like the power lines; I do, however, like the power they provide. So, I guess I just have to live with the power lines.

As to the individual businesses---how would we make them clean it up? We have building codes now, just nobody to enforce them.



Addendum:

Oh, and one more thing. This is a personal preference, which I readily admit.

I lived and worked in Las Colinas at one point, for about a year. When I moved there, I thought it was BEAUTIFUL. Fabulous golf course, nice jogging trails, my office building was on the lagoon, my condo development was luxurious. It was REALLY pretty to look at, very luxurious and beautiful everywhere you looked.

Living there was quite different. Oh, you want to eat at a restaurant other than the several hideously expensive, high-end, rather "manufactured" restaurants in the high-rise office buildings? You have to drive elsewhere in town---and "elsewhere" is a long way away. For any kind of restaurant with "atmosphere", you had to drive into Dallas, or over to Ft. Worth. For fast food, you had to drive into the old (not beautiful, grungy) part of Irving. Ditto churches, gas stations (unless you wanted to pay $0.10 more a gallon...), cleaners ($0.75 a shirt vs. $2.00 in Las Colinas), bank, etc.

In short, while it LOOKED great, there was no "there" there. After a while, it kind of felt like being trapped in a movie set. You really wanted to get back to "real" life. Too artificial.

So, now, when I see the "grit" in Houston, I think of living in that beautiful planned community---which was completely, totally artificial. And I think how glad I am that HEB, Walgreens, and Dandy Cleaners (horrors!) are right around the corner from my house....

[EasilyAmused]

Originally Posted by Malvie

You're really not comparing apples to apples, are you?

I lived in Dallas for 20 years; I was raised there.

Coming in on 45 south from Houston, that is the flood plain and the Trinity River bottoms. It's not pretty. It has no scenic value. It just "is". That area of town is the equivalent to some of the eastern parts of Houston, over by the ship channel. You like the way Central Expressway looks north of downtown, but that's the Dallas equivalent of the Katy Freeway around Memorial or the West Loop, not 45 North. Frankly, I think both the Katy and the West Loop are more attractive than Central.

The area around Love Field has been "iffy" for decades. Just to the east of Love Field is Oak Lawn, the Dallas equivalent of Montrose. I've seen both exhaustively and have lived in both. Not sure one is "nicer" than the other; both are "interesting". However, if you go down Denton Dr. just outside Love Field, it's as bad as anything 45 N has to offer. Ditto Harry Hines. The area around Mockingbird and Harry Hines has had a strip of adult businesses for years (bookstores, theaters, strip joints, massage parlors, the works). Maple Ave. from Love Field headed downtown isn't great, either. Most going to downtown from Love Field are going to go to Harry Hines, which features the aforementioned adult section, a railroad track, a power line, Parkland Hospital (not terrible), and a blighted area behind the Trade Center (you feel like you're driving down an alley, even though you're not) before you get to the new stuff by the American Airlines Center.

Coming out of DFW, if you're going to downtown Dallas or downtown Ft. Worth, you're going to get on 183. I see no (none, zero, zip, nada) difference between the views on 183 and the views on 45 North, other than the fact that 45N is a bigger, more modern freeway. 183 goes to Texas Stadium, then turns and becomes Carpenter Freeway, which goes to a merge with Stemmons. The length of Carpenter Freeway is river bottom and industrial wasteland (reminds me of 10 East out of downtown Houston). What's to like about that?

Atlanta's airport ingress and egress is through one of the grittiest parts of town; you just can't see Hapeville because of the natural topography. Not much we can do about that in Houston.

Denver International Airport is out in the middle of nowhere. It's a wheat field. I mean, I guess if you like that sort of thing it's ok. It just looks like -nothing- to me. To build an equivalent here, we'd have to go to Waverly, Brenham or Columbus. Even then, not sure how long it would last.

Lambert in St. Louis, O'Hare in Chicago, La Guardia, Newark, Philadelphia, Logan---all gritty (pseudonym for "just plain ugly").

I'll admit, I wish we had the money to keep it cleaner, mowed, beautiful, etc. Me, I don't like the power lines; I do, however, like the power they provide. So, I guess I just have to live with the power lines.

As to the individual businesses---how would we make them clean it up? We have building codes now, just nobody to enforce them.



Addendum:

Oh, and one more thing. This is a personal preference, which I readily admit.

I lived and worked in Las Colinas at one point, for about a year. When I moved there, I thought it was BEAUTIFUL. Fabulous golf course, nice jogging trails, my office building was on the lagoon, my condo development was luxurious. It was REALLY pretty to look at, very luxurious and beautiful everywhere you looked.

Living there was quite different. Oh, you want to eat at a restaurant other than the several hideously expensive, high-end, rather "manufactured" restaurants in the high-rise office buildings? You have to drive elsewhere in town---and "elsewhere" is a long way away. For any kind of restaurant with "atmosphere", you had to drive into Dallas, or over to Ft. Worth. For fast food, you had to drive into the old (not beautiful, grungy) part of Irving. Ditto churches, gas stations (unless you wanted to pay $0.10 more a gallon...), cleaners ($0.75 a shirt vs. $2.00 in Las Colinas), bank, etc.

In short, while it LOOKED great, there was no "there" there. After a while, it kind of felt like being trapped in a movie set. You really wanted to get back to "real" life. Too artificial.

So, now, when I see the "grit" in Houston, I think of living in that beautiful planned community---which was completely, totally artificial. And I think how glad I am that HEB, Walgreens, and Dandy Cleaners (horrors!) are right around the corner from my house....

While overly planned is very pretty in a sterile way, grit and a little lack of zoning make life more convenient. It makes the art of living a whole lot easier. Everything is there and that allows more time for life. I gladly give up the "pretty" for more time.

[MrMcCoySays]

Originally Posted by Malvie

You're really not comparing apples to apples, are you?

I lived in Dallas for 20 years; I was raised there.

Coming in on 45 south from Houston, that is the flood plain and the Trinity River bottoms. It's not pretty. It has no scenic value. It just "is". That area of town is the equivalent to some of the eastern parts of Houston, over by the ship channel. You like the way Central Expressway looks north of downtown, but that's the Dallas equivalent of the Katy Freeway around Memorial or the West Loop, not 45 North. Frankly, I think both the Katy and the West Loop are more attractive than Central.

The area around Love Field has been "iffy" for decades. Just to the east of Love Field is Oak Lawn, the Dallas equivalent of Montrose. I've seen both exhaustively and have lived in both. Not sure one is "nicer" than the other; both are "interesting". However, if you go down Denton Dr. just outside Love Field, it's as bad as anything 45 N has to offer. Ditto Harry Hines. The area around Mockingbird and Harry Hines has had a strip of adult businesses for years (bookstores, theaters, strip joints, massage parlors, the works). Maple Ave. from Love Field headed downtown isn't great, either. Most going to downtown from Love Field are going to go to Harry Hines, which features the aforementioned adult section, a railroad track, a power line, Parkland Hospital (not terrible), and a blighted area behind the Trade Center (you feel like you're driving down an alley, even though you're not) before you get to the new stuff by the American Airlines Center.

Coming out of DFW, if you're going to downtown Dallas or downtown Ft. Worth, you're going to get on 183. I see no (none, zero, zip, nada) difference between the views on 183 and the views on 45 North, other than the fact that 45N is a bigger, more modern freeway. 183 goes to Texas Stadium, then turns and becomes Carpenter Freeway, which goes to a merge with Stemmons. The length of Carpenter Freeway is river bottom and industrial wasteland (reminds me of 10 East out of downtown Houston). What's to like about that?

Atlanta's airport ingress and egress is through one of the grittiest parts of town; you just can't see Hapeville because of the natural topography. Not much we can do about that in Houston.

Denver International Airport is out in the middle of nowhere. It's a wheat field. I mean, I guess if you like that sort of thing it's ok. It just looks like -nothing- to me. To build an equivalent here, we'd have to go to Waverly, Brenham or Columbus. Even then, not sure how long it would last.

Lambert in St. Louis, O'Hare in Chicago, La Guardia, Newark, Philadelphia, Logan---all gritty (pseudonym for "just plain ugly").

I'll admit, I wish we had the money to keep it cleaner, mowed, beautiful, etc. Me, I don't like the power lines; I do, however, like the power they provide. So, I guess I just have to live with the power lines.

As to the individual businesses---how would we make them clean it up? We have building codes now, just nobody to enforce them.



Addendum:

Oh, and one more thing. This is a personal preference, which I readily admit.

I lived and worked in Las Colinas at one point, for about a year. When I moved there, I thought it was BEAUTIFUL. Fabulous golf course, nice jogging trails, my office building was on the lagoon, my condo development was luxurious. It was REALLY pretty to look at, very luxurious and beautiful everywhere you looked.

Living there was quite different. Oh, you want to eat at a restaurant other than the several hideously expensive, high-end, rather "manufactured" restaurants in the high-rise office buildings? You have to drive elsewhere in town---and "elsewhere" is a long way away. For any kind of restaurant with "atmosphere", you had to drive into Dallas, or over to Ft. Worth. For fast food, you had to drive into the old (not beautiful, grungy) part of Irving. Ditto churches, gas stations (unless you wanted to pay $0.10 more a gallon...), cleaners ($0.75 a shirt vs. $2.00 in Las Colinas), bank, etc.

In short, while it LOOKED great, there was no "there" there. After a while, it kind of felt like being trapped in a movie set. You really wanted to get back to "real" life. Too artificial.

So, now, when I see the "grit" in Houston, I think of living in that beautiful planned community---which was completely, totally artificial. And I think how glad I am that HEB, Walgreens, and Dandy Cleaners (horrors!) are right around the corner from my house....

When i came into Dallas it was up I-35 from waco and it didnt look that bad to me. How does it compare to 45?

[Malvie]

Originally Posted by MrMcCoySays

When i came into Dallas it was up I-35 from waco and it didnt look that bad to me. How does it compare to 45?

It really doesn't; more like US 59 from Kingwood to downtown Houston.

Waxahatchie to LBJ (635) is "new", full of suburbs, including (now, and amazingly to me, Waxahatchie itself). Typical suburban sprawl, just like Kingwood/Atascocita area---gas stations, truck dealerships (Peterbilt), restaurants, strip centers, car dealerships, fast food, big box (W-M, Home Depot, etc). Billboards. Some churches. Suburban jumble.

LBJ to downtown is Oak Cliff. Older, disadvantaged area comparable to 5th Ward/Kashmere area in Houston. About like 59 from 610 into downtown, just more of it on that stretch of 35. Not much activity. About as "run-down" looking as the OP's comments---not much mowing, some litter, etc.

"North Dallas" = "West Houston" if that helps. Dallas is marching inexorably towards the Red River/Oklahoma. Houston is marching inexorably towards San Antonio (even Richmond and Rosenberg are really "west", so you're talking about the Southwest Freeway as well as the Katy Freeway). Houston is just BIGGER. You have to remember, while the metroplex is bigger in population overall (by something like a half million, and that changes daily), it really is split between Dallas, Ft. Worth, and Arlington (with huge suburbs like Plano, Irving, etc). Arlington is bigger than Waco, Texas. Houston is ONE THING, with huge suburbs like Katy and Sugar Land and The Woodlands (all Plano equivalents). Houston just has more in one spot, where the Metroplex is diffused among the various cities.

Taken apart from Ft. Worth/Arlington, Dallas is MUCH smaller than Houston.

[jluke65780]

Originally Posted by Malvie

It really doesn't; more like US 59 from Kingwood to downtown Houston.

Waxahatchie to LBJ (635) is "new", full of suburbs, including (now, and amazingly to me, Waxahatchie itself). Typical suburban sprawl, just like Kingwood/Atascocita area---gas stations, truck dealerships (Peterbilt), restaurants, strip centers, car dealerships, fast food, big box (W-M, Home Depot, etc). Billboards. Some churches. Suburban jumble.

LBJ to downtown is Oak Cliff. Older, disadvantaged area comparable to 5th Ward/Kashmere area in Houston. About like 59 from 610 into downtown, just more of it on that stretch of 35. Not much activity. About as "run-down" looking as the OP's comments---not much mowing, some litter, etc.

"North Dallas" = "West Houston" if that helps. Dallas is marching inexorably towards the Red River/Oklahoma. Houston is marching inexorably towards San Antonio (even Richmond and Rosenberg are really "west", so you're talking about the Southwest Freeway as well as the Katy Freeway). Houston is just BIGGER. You have to remember, while the metroplex is bigger in population overall (by something like a half million, and that changes daily), it really is split between Dallas, Ft. Worth, and Arlington (with huge suburbs like Plano, Irving, etc). Arlington is bigger than Waco, Texas. Houston is ONE THING, with huge suburbs like Katy and Sugar Land and The Woodlands (all Plano equivalents). Houston just has more in one spot, where the Metroplex is diffused among the various cities.

Taken apart from Ft. Worth/Arlington, Dallas is MUCH smaller than Houston.

Why do people always spilt up Dallas, Ft. Worth, and Arlington. They work together. Fort Worth is the same distance from Dallas, as The Woodland's or Galveston is from Houston.

Without Oakland and San Jose, San Francisco is much smaller. Even though Dallas is bigger, they both feel the same size, neither one feels significantly bigger than the other.