Houston's mayoral candidates... (crime, living in, codes)

[westres1]

Originally Posted by Thaskateguy

Wonder what the cost comparison are, per mile, for "Mono rail" compared to "street level trains"

I dont know but the entire plan would have to be re- studied,surveyed,voted on,mapped,engineered etc...Which IMO would be a waste since this plan is shovel ready.

[XodoX]

I don't think he's "too conservative".

Only see Peter Brown ads on TV Gets a little boring after a while.

[Thaskateguy]

Originally Posted by westres1

I dont know but the entire plan would have to be re- studied,surveyed,voted on,mapped,engineered etc...Which IMO would be a waste since this plan is shovel ready.

Discarding a bad plan, while still in the "paper stage" is never a bad idea. It's when the project is done, and millions over budget, that it is a bad idea, and bad plan. Lets see, "Plans restudied, verses million of dollars spent on a inefficient rail system" A system I might add that has already been VOTED down several times by the Voters. (People seem to forget about those pesky Votes) And if it is like the toy train on main Street, there will be lots of businesses along the route gone, to never return. Or at best majorly disrupted. Simply adding a train into the mix of street traffic, is no improvement, but has proved just the opposite in fact. Buses do that job just as well, and for a small percentage of the cost of a train. Trains that have to stop at traffic lights are not efficient as a means of "rapid transit." The idea here is to move people as fast and efficiently as possible. If trains were the answer we would have kept all the ones we had. I remember the old trolleys.

[theSUBlime]

Originally Posted by Thaskateguy

Discarding a bad plan, while still in the "paper stage" is never a bad idea. It's when the project is done, and millions over budget, that it is a bad plan. Lets see, "Plans restudied--verses million of dollars spent on a system that has already been turned down several times by the Voters. (People seem to forget about those pesky Votes) And if it is like the toy train on main Street,there lots of businesses along the route gone, to never return. Or at best majorly disrupted. Simply adding a train into the mix of street traffic, is no improvement, but has proved just the opposite in fact. Buses do that job just as well, and for a small percentage of the cost of a train. Trains that have to stop at traffic lights are not efficient as a means of "rapid transit." The idea here is to move people as fast and efficiently as possible. If trains were the answer we would have kept all the ones we had. I remember the old trolleys.

Hello again...

You do realize that this plan is only partially in the paper stage, so I think if anything, it could be partially revised. The main problem with our train is that it hasn't reached to areas where most people live, like the suburbs and West Houston (so of course those are the people that have some of the biggest problems with it) and the majority of the Inner Loop is not serviced.

It should also be noted that studies have shown over and over (though I personally have no problems with buses) that people are generally much more willing to ride rail than bus. Ridership on the rail in Houston is great, it's just coverage and perhaps infrastructure that needs to be addressed. The trains that run above ground here in Boston work quite fine as a means of rapid transit. The only point one might have is that Houston has a vastly different type of infrastructure. As for the trolley comment, your recurring theme of "the old days" is admirable (there are some things that Houston could have preserved better), but sometimes its necessary to evolve our technology to meet modern day challenges, which is something that METRO probably needs to recognize as well.

[Thaskateguy]

With out going to all the particulars of train verses levitation, antigrav, teleportation devises, allow me to share my experience with you, if you have a moment. "The train"---was going to bring new life to down town, and be a handy way to get around fast and efficiently. --what it did, was kill main street. I remember standing in the middle of Main Street near Allens Landing, and looking South. Main street was red clay road, with no life at all to be seen. This was on a Sunday morning. Work had been halted for months, and there was no sign of any being gotten ready for. There was no machinery, and no workers. Just dead silence like in a Sci/fi movie. The clay had been there long enough, and packed down so much that shinny tracks ran down it where cars had been using it to some extent. Some of the hand full of hold out business had laid sod in front of their shops, in an feeble attempt get rid of the clay look, and the mud. Some had built little bridges, to reach the "Street". In my mind, I compared this to the Houston I knew from 1957, and had to ask," how could anyone let this happen to such a beautiful Main Street". --cut to the last page. Today, Main street is not even a shadow of it's former self. We let it be killed off in the name of progress. but like with "Change," "Progress" is often in the eye of the beholder. I didn't speak out then, and wish I had. I was young, and couldn't be bothered. I had problems of my own. But I will speak out this time. We seem to not learn from our mistakes, when the bottom line is the prime directive, and not what is actually best for the Tax payers of Our fine city.---and good morning to you also.

[westres1]

I think Main street now is really nice. I love the way the water shoots over it when the train comes thru. I enjoy the Flying Saucer and Mia Bellas on Main. Downtown is never going to be like the good ole days due to parking,heat and so much of Houston DT lunch places being in the tunnels. I shopped at Foleys DT as a kid until Gulfgate was built.

The whole idea of building the inner city trains prior to the trains to the burbs was to allow the suburbanites a way to get around after they rode the commuter trains into town.
But this thread is about Mayors not rail...I am sorry I "derailed" it.

[jfre81]

The rail killed Main Street? Har. You mean it was "alive" in the decade or so before the rail came?

LRT is just the new streetcar. Some people say that in a derisive way but it's not really a bad thing. Much of the inner loop was laid out for streetcars anyway. It should not, and will not, be the end-all-be-all of transit. I just don't see where the density is there yet for heavy rail.

[Thaskateguy]

Originally Posted by jfre81

The rail killed Main Street? Har. You mean it was "alive" in the decade or so before the rail came?

LRT is just the new streetcar. Some people say that in a derisive way but it's not really a bad thing. Much of the inner loop was laid out for streetcars anyway. It should not, and will not, be the end-all-be-all of transit. I just don't see where the density is there yet for heavy rail.

Main street needed a good face lift, is very true.I worked at Foleys, in the early 70, and it was still vibrant down town. I still remember seeing my first street bum, going through a trash can. I had never seen that before. so went up to the guy to see what was wrong. I said, "have you lost your pride"? He just stared at me. I understand more now, than then. I Down Town home through the early to late 80s. I was there trough all of it. I remember Skating there, at 2:00 am, and not being able to see a car, as far as I could see, in any direction. but it didn't need to be gutted, just for a little train. Bars alone, do not a city make.

[jfre81]

Originally Posted by Thaskateguy

Main street needed a good face lift, is very true.I worked at Foleys, in the early 70, and it was still vibrant down town.

That was before white flight really set in, and before the oil bust. You might as well be talking about a different city. We can go offtopic debating what killed Main Street but the rail wasn't it. If anything it was the start of reclaiming downtown.

What's Gene Locke's take on transit? His endorsement by Lee Brown isn't a good sign.

[Thaskateguy]

Originally Posted by jfre81

That was before white flight really set in, and before the oil bust. You might as well be talking about a different city. We can go offtopic debating what killed Main Street but the rail wasn't it. If anything it was the start of reclaiming downtown.

What's Gene Locke's take on transit? His endorsement by Lee Brown isn't a good sign.

I agree--White flight I found to be funny. Now that they found out we weren't all killed in our sleep, want to ease back in. But are finding they must pay a premium to move back in. It will cost them much more than they got when they high tailed it the first time. I believe in diggin in like a Kansas tick, and changing things I don't like, if I can. No runnin for this Lad. --Unless they are callin me for supper. Enjoy the day, should be a great weekend, with cool breezes, I hope.