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Old 12-21-2010, 10:46 AM
 
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One has to consider how much pollution is created in the making of the electricity also. Look, I'm not against electric cars. I think the idea is a great one. I simply noted that the technology isn't there yet.

What I'm afraid is going to happen is that the Volt isn't going to deliver anywhere near the claims that GM is promising, it will be a failure and that sets back electric cars for years.

Very, very few are going to be willing to pay $40,000 for a commuter. They won't even pay 30K (or whatever it is with tax incentives).

My 1990 Mazda Protege regularly got 40MPG on a trip and mid 30's as an average. My 1978 Diesel VW got over 50mpg on a trip and averaged in the 40's.

Mid to lower 30's is a joke.
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:25 AM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 10,727,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
My 1990 Mazda Protege regularly got 40MPG on a trip and mid 30's as an average. My 1978 Diesel VW got over 50mpg on a trip and averaged in the 40's.

Mid to lower 30's is a joke.
Precisely. I think the Volt will be the Edsel of its time (though far worse).
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Old 12-21-2010, 01:35 PM
 
Location: nunya
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I agree that a 30 mpg claim on a crackerbox is a joke, when a full size Buick will get that at 75 mph with the a/c on.

Gm's first electric, the EV-1, was successful. GM only leased them, no sales, and owners didn't want to give them back. GM got them back and crushed them.

The thing about charging an EV is, we have coal, gas, nuke, wind, solar, and hydro power, it's the oil for fuels that's giving us a hard time. Look at your electric bill, think about all the appliances that run daily, then look at the average daily cost on your bill.
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Old 12-21-2010, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Western Pennsylvania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
One has to consider how much pollution is created in the making of the electricity also.
It is much easier to control pollution (on a per-kWHr basis) at a power plant than it is in a vehicle. Wind, solar, and nuclear don't generate any CO2 or sulfur emissions directly, although there are some pollutants associated with the manufacture of their components.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Look, I'm not against electric cars. I think the idea is a great one. I simply noted that the technology isn't there yet.
Technologies always evolve, they never have the initial performance that they'll have a few years down the road. But you have to start somewhere. As production volume increases, the costs of batteries will decline, and perhaps some new battery technologies will come along. For now, the Volt will meet the needs of a segment of the market.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
My 1990 Mazda Protege regularly got 40MPG on a trip and mid 30's as an average. My 1978 Diesel VW got over 50mpg on a trip and averaged in the 40's.

Mid to lower 30's is a joke.
Let's see... your Mazda had to meet 21 year old emissions and safety requirements, the VW met 33 year old requirements.What mileage do you think they would get if they had to meet today's requirements, and at what cost? I seem to recall that a few years ago, VW quit selling diesels in the U.S. because they couldn't meet the emissions requirements.
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Old 12-21-2010, 02:19 PM
 
71,504 posts, read 30,027,987 times
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For now, the Volt will meet the needs of a segment of the market.
I disagree that there is even a market for a $40k econo car that isn't even very economical in everyday use.

VW's are still selling Diesels in the U.S. and they are very popular.

New VW Jetta Diesel Tops Prius in Fuel-Economy Marathon Test

New VW Jetta Diesel Tops Prius in Fuel-Economy Marathon Test - Popular Mechanics
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Old 12-23-2010, 02:24 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia 'Burbs
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Good god, I looked up the pricing on these things. Someone call me when they release one at around $20k. I'm not paying $35k for what is essentially a Chevy Cobalt with a fancy body kit, but just happens to have an electrical engine.
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Old 12-23-2010, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Western Pennsylvania
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Start saving your pennies, Pharm. The proposed emission & mpg regulations will pretty much mandate that some form of gas/electric hybrid be used for a substantial portion of the automotive population. Remember, your government knows best how you should spend your money.
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Old 12-23-2010, 08:36 AM
 
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The Prius hybrid works great. It's affordable and what GM should have built years ago.

I'll have to go do a search but I don't understand why nobody has come out with a diesel hybrid.
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Old 12-23-2010, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Western Pennsylvania
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It might simply be a cost reason. No need to add to the premium that hybrids cost while they're still in the experimental stage, or slightly beyond.
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Old 12-23-2010, 01:25 PM
 
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That is what the links I've found have said. But let's look at the big picture with that arguement. From the links I read it was stated that the extra cost didn't justify the gains. I question that but let's set tha aside for a minute.

It was noted that the diesels that were built were good for like 78 mpg. Now maybe this is incomplete information and in real life it wouldn't be this good. Regular diesels can get 50 mpg so I don't think 78 is inconcievable.

So we go with a diesel/hybrid for $35K that gets incredible gas mileage along with longetivity. With the Volt we get a commuter that costs 35K and isn't likely to get as good of mpg ratings.

It is supposed to succeed because?
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