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Old 12-23-2010, 02:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kennedy View Post
ha ha ha....I smell Senator Rocky in that burnt Canola Oil.....
LOL ... With the car chargers Mickey D's will become a real wacko haven.
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Old 12-23-2010, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Western Pennsylvania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
That is what the links I've found have said. But let's look at the big picture with that arguement. From the links I read it was stated that the extra cost didn't justify the gains. I question that but let's set tha aside for a minute.

It was noted that the diesels that were built were good for like 78 mpg. Now maybe this is incomplete information and in real life it wouldn't be this good. Regular diesels can get 50 mpg so I don't think 78 is inconcievable.

So we go with a diesel/hybrid for $35K that gets incredible gas mileage along with longetivity. With the Volt we get a commuter that costs 35K and isn't likely to get as good of mpg ratings.

It is supposed to succeed because?
Those were experimental diesels, right? Not even prototypes. And certainly not production vehicles. So the $35K/50-70-80mpg could just as easily be $50K/40mpg in a real vehicle, for sale today. Which the Volt is. (Well, it's for sale in some places, anyway, but AFAIK not WV and not PA.)

Diesels (in passenger cars, excepting Mercedes and some VWs) have always been a tough sell in the United States. Maybe it's the soot, or the smell, or the fact that it's not sold at Taylor's Grocery in Hillsboro or the Marathon station in Buckeye. Most of those issues have been solved, or are on the way to being solved, but the image remains.

As the mpg goes up, the cost of achieving the next improvement in mileage becomes more and more expensive. It's called The Law of Diminishing Returns. Really, we'd achieve a much better result if instead of ultra high mileage small cars, the engineering effort were directed at the mid- and large-size vehicles.

The Volt will succeed because there is a large enough market for a 4/5 passenger compact that can do the daily commute without using any gasoline*.

* Beyond the occasional engine run to keep the seals moist, prevent the gas from going stale, etc.
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Old 12-23-2010, 06:39 PM
 
Location: nunya
566 posts, read 1,374,263 times
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The range of the Volt on it's battery alone would cover the commute distance for the larger percentage of workers, I could use it, if not for the price.

Europe has many higher mpg diesels, we just can't get them here due to the air regulations, but improvements are supposed to be underway.

VW has been working on a one or two seat, single cyl. diesel that gets 258 mpg with a top speed of 74 mph.

This is the two-seater (one seat behind the driver).

Rumors and Reality About Volkswagen's 258 mpg Car | Leslie Berliant


Last edited by Two-Rivers; 12-23-2010 at 06:48 PM.. Reason: Editing
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Old 12-23-2010, 07:01 PM
 
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Quote:
The Volt will succeed because there is a large enough market for a 4/5 passenger compact that can do the daily commute without using any gasoline*.
As two rivers notes, there is a market but not for the price of the Volt.
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Old 12-23-2010, 09:56 PM
 
Location: nunya
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The Coda has a range of up to 120 miles and is about $37,400 after the tax break. The car was to be available this Fall, built by a California company, Coda Automotive.

Coda Automotive Unveils Mainstream All-Electric Sedan - With Video

Electric Cars, Electric Vehicles (EV), Zero Emissions Car | CODA Automotive

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Old 12-24-2010, 07:21 AM
 
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A claimed 120. We will see after someone actually tests it in everyday driving. Quite the conundrum. How do you keep a company afloat like Coda long enough for costs and technology to catch up to affordability?
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Old 01-07-2011, 10:41 PM
 
Location: Huntington, WV
4,153 posts, read 6,855,022 times
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Meant to post this when it came out but forgot. Interesting what a waiting list there is for these cars.

Chevy Volt, Nissan Leaf post small December sales - The Herald Dispatch
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Old 01-07-2011, 10:55 PM
 
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Right, but you buy one of them and you are really limiting yourself in terms of distance were it not for the gas engine component. Say you want to drive from Huntington to Harpers Ferry. Wouldn't you have to find someplace in the middle of nowhere to charge your batteries, so you'd have to crank on the gasoline engine which now has to tote the total package around.
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:31 PM
 
Location: Huntington, WV
4,153 posts, read 6,855,022 times
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Not pushing these cars at all. Just noting how interesting it is how much Chevy has been promoting the Volt and all of the hype around it yet they are making so few available for sale. Seems like wasted promotion to me.

To comment on your point though, right now these cars do have gas engines in addidtion to the larger batteries so you aren't sacrificing any distance. Thus, you wouldn't need the charge mid-way to make the trip from Huntington to Harper's Ferry. The car just wouldn't be as fuel efficient without the electric battery being charged, which is the whole point of these is fuel efficiency.

The biggest area that I think these cars fail in, battery life. We all know batteries don't last forever due to their nature. Once the battery has to be replaced, reports I've heard so far so the replacement battery will cost $10,000. They estimate the life at 10 years but no way they hold a good charge at the end of that. GM supposedly will include one battery replacement in the warranty but how much is that going to cost them? It will be interesting to watch for sure.
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Old 01-08-2011, 12:09 AM
 
9,401 posts, read 11,464,116 times
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Interesting indeed. My hunch is by the time you spend the extra money on batteries and inflated car prices, as well as charging issues you won't really be saving any money with them. Personally, I think natural gas is the way to go to get rid of foreign energy dependence for vehicles. That, and research into making conversion from coal to gasoline more efficient and cost effective.
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