U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > West Virginia > Huntington
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-02-2009, 06:51 AM
 
9,414 posts, read 11,488,786 times
Reputation: 1508

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbailey1138 View Post
You have to be with some of the stuff CT tries to post. And unfortunately, I'm not a guy who can often just let it go. I try though.
You brought up Morgantown out of thin air in a post about Huntington, not me. But look, I'm not saying everything is bad about Huntington. Obviously that's not true. And, if you look on balance over the past couple of years they have made some progress. It's just that the town has lost so very much from what it used to be and I don't really see signs that it will regain its former glory. On balance, the gains have not been substantial, although you could make a case that any gain is better than a loss to be sure. Wheeling too has made some gains recently. However, converting from a basically blue collar town to something that will thrive in today's environment is a daunting task. It won't be even close to being easy in West Virginia's political climate.

You gain a few jobs in a rail yard and you lose a few jobs in a steel mill. It's basically like treading water. And, while the downtown revitalization effort is nice, it won't bring true prosperity to the area. It might provide more tax revenue and avoid raising the user fee, but it isn't going to put much money in your pocket. Huntington and all the industrial towns need to totally retool, not just rennovate.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-02-2009, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
424 posts, read 1,082,748 times
Reputation: 146
Ok boys, like put down our fists and agree to disagree


peace brothers!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-03-2009, 02:11 AM
 
Location: Elkins, WV
1,981 posts, read 5,228,091 times
Reputation: 807
This will never end..... ever... some people just have too much pride.. trust me I know what I'm talking about... Everyone here knows me... and look at the headlines...... hmmmm

It's the same thing, Tim has a love for Huntington and the other guy obviously is enthralled with morgantown.... ehhh it happens... to each his own. I just wish someone would quit bad mouthing a certain town to make the other town look better. COUGH COUGH.... I also wish we could also just be glad and greatful for what our state has and what we can improve on, rather than boasting about population figures they find on websites... cause we all know everything on the internet is correct right?

Last edited by GottaHerdOn; 06-03-2009 at 02:22 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-03-2009, 09:53 AM
 
9,414 posts, read 11,488,786 times
Reputation: 1508
I agree with you. At the same time, any rational discussion will honestly address issues. I sure don't blame Tim for his love of Huntington. I love my hometown too. We were having a discussion about Huntington and there is a lot that is good about that town. I went to school there, so I know that.
The people who live there are among the nicest to be found anywhere. At the same time, not all is rosy there, and it does no good to pretend that it is.

The downtown rennovations and construction are positive, to be sure, but they don't change the underlying fact that it is still fundamentally a blue collar town with an industrial emphasis. Unless some changes are made in approach, it just isn't going to really prosper. That's my opinion based on my 66 years of life and having lived in several locations. Tim brought Morgantown into the discussion, not me. Doing so in a comparitive fashion (which he did) opens that up for discussion too. In my view, Huntington is not going to fair very well in such comparisons, but of course that is just my opinion and he is certainly entitled to have a different one.

Who knows what the future will bring? I sure don't have any crystal balls, but for now my opinion is that primarily heavy industry based towns will be in for a hard time and it really doesn't look to improve, especially with a bunch of environmental wackos controlling the Government. They will continue to drive our industry to other countries and ruin our middle class in conjuction with the fiscal right wingers just as they have in the past. Coal might provide temporary relief, but they will do their best to ruin that too. Those people care a lot more about their personal agendas than they do the American people, and it doesn't even occur to them that they are actually hurting their agendas because the countries that are benefitting from their positions don't care at all about them. They are laughing all the way to prosperity.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-03-2009, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Huntington, WV
4,153 posts, read 6,865,872 times
Reputation: 768
Here's my 2 cents and then I'll try to be done. All isn't rosy in ANY town, no matter how much good is going on there. Even positive things sometimes bring negative aspects with them. The biggest question is are things going in the right direction and are most aspects of the communities seeing positive change? In Huntington, I'd have to say the answer to that is yes. You don't just have a new development popping up in one place that is pulling businesses from somewhere else in town. Citizens are behind many new initiatives and are looking for and creating change themselves. Crime is down and investment in properties is up. ALL things must be considered when talking about whether things are on the upswing or not and you can only make that determination by actually living here and experiencing them. Not by visiting for a day or two once a year and reading a few headlines.

CT wants to chime in on ANY discussion about Huntington or Marshall and tell us why the positive things going on aren't really positive and then he'll find a negative and exaggerate it. Point in case from this post is the job situation. He claimed CSX had laid off people here when they in fact just built a new $4.5 million center and added 200 jobs. Then he cites 132 jobs moved out of Buffalo, NY and tries to say that affects Huntington. Or claiming 50 people were fired at a local marine shipping facility when only 23 people worked there. Then he downplays multi-million dollar investments in several downtown buildings and acts like they don't matter. Numbers only count when they say what HE wants them to but they are "suspect"(his words about the economic census) when they don't support his conclusions. Yes I mentioned Morgantown but to show that because a restaurant closed and a dealer lost its franchise (things that have happened there too) that it didn't mean the ecomony was going to pot as he was claiming about Huntington. There are plenty of statistics that bode better for Huntington as well, number one being that it has 19,000 MORE residents than Morgantown among others. I could list those off here but what would it accomplish? Not much. CT tries to build up Morgantown/WVU by consistently trying to tear down Huntington/MU. Even GHO and others have pointed this out. Check the positive posts about Huntington/MU and see. I could "honestly address issues" with Morgantown as I have lived there before, but I usually don't. CT claims to want to have a discussion about Huntington but a discussion is using facts and actually knowing what's going on, two things he seems to have trouble with consistently when it comes to Huntington.

It would also be different if I was the only one living here who thought things were getting better but I'm not. I think GHO would agree that there's a lot of GREAT stuff going on here. In addition to all of the great stuff Create Huntington has done, there is also a group right now looking at bringing the film industry here on a consistent basis for movies and TV shows. This group has done the research and found that Huntington has most of the things needed for this and they even have some Hollywood connections. It's creative things like this along with the growth of Marshall that will help Huntington continue to see some positive growth. As usual, here are some links to support the things above.

Thomas McChesney: Signs show Huntington attitudes are changing - The Herald Dispatch
Thomas McChesney: Volunteers plant trees to beautify community - The Herald Dispatch
Thomas McChesney: Successful ideas, projects transforming Huntington - The Herald Dispatch
EDITORIAL: Initiatives could add new life along the river - The Herald Dispatch

Home Sweet Home | Why Huntington WV (http://whyhuntingtonwv.com/articles/home-sweet-home/ - broken link)
Why I live in Huntington | Why Huntington WV (http://whyhuntingtonwv.com/articles/baseball_player_stays/ - broken link)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-03-2009, 02:35 PM
 
9,414 posts, read 11,488,786 times
Reputation: 1508
Okay, Tim fair enough. I'll make one more post about it and that's it too.

You are correct that I got some of the numbers wrong. But in my view it is about more than numbers. But since you mentioned numbers, I'll point out a couple and hope to get it right this time. More important than absolute numbers are trends, and the two areas are either moving in opposite directions or one is static while the other is advancing. You know as well as I do that Morgantown can not grow much more population within the city limits due to geographic limitations. The place is essentially full up with people. Most of the development and growth there is right outside the city limits in adjacent areas. That's why Monongalia County has almost 90,000 residents and Cabell is moving downward toward that figure (most recent count "07" 94,435). Even during the economic downturn when growth everywhere is slowing, Monongalia continues to gain, albeit at a slower pace.

The demographics of the two towns are very different, and that will be the difference in the future. Monongalia is far better educated than Cabell and better positioned for the economy of the future. That is nothing against Huntington. I come from a blue collar background myself, but that is not where the future is to be found, and that is why Morgantown and environs is one of the country's best local economies. Unless it suddenly is not an advantage to have a well educated population, that doesn't look to change any time soon.

We can continue to have differing opinions as to the advisability of some of President Kopps more recent ventures, but even a casual observer can see that he is desparately trying to build headcount with discounted tuition rates and starting new programs with a static economic base. My opinion is that is not good. You can believe that the grow at any cost approach is good if you choose. I just do not see it that way, and I went to school there. Controlled, measured growth based on demonstrated demand is the only logical approach in my view in that field. Robbing Peter to pay Paul will not cut the mustard, especially when your faculty and staff are woefully underpaid due to those actions. If you've ever been an administrator in an organization, you know that is true.

So, I'll promise to not bring up Huntington in Morgantown discussions if you will promise to not bring up Morgantown in Huntington discussions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-03-2009, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Huntington, WV
4,153 posts, read 6,865,872 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTMountaineer View Post
That's why Monongalia County has almost 90,000 residents and Cabell is moving downward toward that figure (most recent count "07" 94,435).
Once again, not looking at the "trends" you claim to be following:

Cabell County Population
July1, 2005 - 94,304
July 1, 2006 - 94,327
July 1, 2007 - 94,410
July, 1 2008 - 94,631

West Virginia by County - GCT-T1. Population Estimates

Increasing population gains for 3 straight years. Doesn't seem to be moving fully "downward" as you claim. Down from 2000 but the yearly losses have become gains the last 3 years. This is more data that supports my opinion to show that things are turning a corner in the Huntington area.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-03-2009, 03:23 PM
 
11,961 posts, read 12,447,970 times
Reputation: 2772
There isn't any actual argument. The criteria of subjective has higher value than rational, so any reference to 'rational' is rather irrational. Who is to blame if someone prefers strawberry ice cream? Same logic.

When it comes to any city WV I noticed a common theme emerged. You either appreciate what's there, or mean to help along what consensus agrees is needful. Straightforward stuff, really. Those who can't be bothered tend to avoid coming here in the first place, which is also an elegant solution for all parties concerned.

That said, peanut gallery complaints which never intends to take meaningful responsibility by living there/ voting there/ working on it via commerce= whining about strawberry ice cream.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-03-2009, 05:31 PM
 
9,414 posts, read 11,488,786 times
Reputation: 1508
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbailey1138 View Post
Once again, not looking at the "trends" you claim to be following:

Cabell County Population
July1, 2005 - 94,304
July 1, 2006 - 94,327
July 1, 2007 - 94,410
July, 1 2008 - 94,631

West Virginia by County - GCT-T1. Population Estimates

Increasing population gains for 3 straight years. Doesn't seem to be moving fully "downward" as you claim. Down from 2000 but the yearly losses have become gains the last 3 years. This is more data that supports my opinion to show that things are turning a corner in the Huntington area.
There you go again... I said opposite directions or static, not moving downward. Okay, those are the trends of which I was speaking. In a four year period the county has added 304 people. That's fine until the next plant closes, then what happens. All that rennovation in the downtown has resulted in the County growing by 300 folks, and it expected to lost .4% this year according to Forbes (no assurances either way, but that is a projection from a reliable economic/business publication). The steel mill drops another 125 people and that 304 person 3 year gain disappears. The town will never really prosper that way. The population is essentially in a static mode, but the manufacturing sector is disappearing so what will the future bring? You see a more dynamic picture in areas that are geared up for the future.

They have to find a way to get their blue collar workers interested in becoming more educated if those people are going to stay there long term. Football games aside, the local institution has not done a great job of engaging them in the learning environment, and the current administration is more concerned with trying to get out-of-staters to attend via discounted tuition rates than they are getting adult workers/students to get advanced training for tomorrow's workforce. It's not that they haven't made any effort at all, but when you look at the education level of adult residents it is apparent they have dropped the ball. I hope they find a way to reverse that before a manufacturing facility closes or reduces workforce.

Nothing would make me happier than to see the trend reverse in terms of industrial jobs. In my opinion, our public has been taken to the cleaners by
Al Gore and the whole group of alarmists and the net effect is actually more polution since the factories in foreign lands have little to no regulation. The Arctic Ice Cap actually grew this year, and this year was one of the colder ones on record for the Northeast. I just don't see any signs of that reverse happening. In fact, Our 44th. President took our tax money and used it to keep Canadian workers working, allowing GM to close more than a dozen American plants while they are keeping all the plants in Canada and Mexico operating. That after he campaigned on the promise of making certain American workers got a fair deal with international trade.

And, Harborlady, I actually am a West Virginia resident. I own two homes... one in WV and one in CT and move back and forth between them. My goal is to be in WV full time within a year and a half.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-03-2009, 05:37 PM
 
9,414 posts, read 11,488,786 times
Reputation: 1508
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbailey1138 View Post
Once again, not looking at the "trends" you claim to be following:

Cabell County Population
July1, 2005 - 94,304
July 1, 2006 - 94,327
July 1, 2007 - 94,410
July, 1 2008 - 94,631

West Virginia by County - GCT-T1. Population Estimates

Increasing population gains for 3 straight years. Doesn't seem to be moving fully "downward" as you claim. Down from 2000 but the yearly losses have become gains the last 3 years. This is more data that supports my opinion to show that things are turning a corner in the Huntington area.
There you go again... I said opposite directions or static, not moving downward. Okay, those are the trends of which I was speaking. In a four year period the county has added 327 people. That's fine until the next plant closes, then what happens. All that rennovation in the downtown has resulted in the County growing by 300 folks, and it expected to lost .4% this year according to Forbes (no assurances either way, but that is a projection from a reliable economic/business publication). The steel mill drops another 125 people and that 327 person 3 year gain disappears. The town will never really prosper that way. The population is essentially in a static mode, but the manufacturing sector is disappearing so what will the future bring? You see a more dynamic picture in areas that are geared up for the future. I see at least one county that has passed Cabell by in population and another that is rapidly closing in on doing so. Fluctuations are normal, but Cabell is more than a bit behind the curve.

They have to find a way to get their blue collar workers interested in becoming more educated if those people are going to stay there long term. Football games aside, the local institution has not done a great job of engaging them in the learning environment, and the current administration is more concerned with trying to get out-of-staters to attend via discounted tuition rates than they are getting adult workers/students to get advanced training for tomorrow's workforce. It's not that they haven't made any effort at all, but when you look at the education level of adult residents it is apparent they have dropped the ball. I hope they find a way to reverse that before a manufacturing facility closes or reduces workforce.

Nothing would make me happier than to see the trend reverse in terms of industrial jobs. In my opinion, our public has been taken to the cleaners by Al Gore and the whole group of alarmists and the net effect is actually more polution since the factories in foreign lands have little to no regulation. The Arctic Ice Cap actually grew this year, and this year was one of the colder ones on record for the Northeast. The fiscal conservatives have put another nail in the coffin with the open borders trade policies that serve to depress the cost of labor. I just don't see any signs of that reverse happening. In fact, Our 44th. President took our tax money and used it to keep Canadian workers working, allowing GM to close more than a dozen American plants while they are keeping all the plants in Canada and Mexico operating. That after he campaigned on the promise of making certain American workers got a fair deal with international trade.

And, Harborlady, I actually am a West Virginia resident. I own two homes... one in WV and one in CT and move back and forth between them. My goal is to be in WV full time within a year and a half.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > West Virginia > Huntington
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top