Marshall University Expecting More Growth (Charleston, Huntington: how much, transfer, high school)

[tbailey1138]

So it's a scholarship and not a discount at WVU and is OK but it's a "discounted, Wal-Mart tuition" at MU, even though the criteria for the scholarships are nearly the same. And FYI, nearly all out-of-state students at WVU don't pay full tuition either. Minimum requirements for out of state students is a 2.5 GPA and 22 ACT score. With a 3.0 GPA and a 23 ACT, you get an automatic $3,000 scholarship for ALL out of state students. With a 3.25 GPA and an ACT of 26, you get an extra $1,000 making the total scholarship/discount $4,000. But WVU doesn't "discount" tuition, you're right.

WVU:: Undergraduate Scholarship Office - Residents of Other States Scholarships (http://www.arc.wvu.edu/Scholars_Office/out_of_state.html - broken link)

West Virginia University - Freshman Admissions Requirements (http://admissions.wvu.edu/undergraduate/application/requirements.asp - broken link)


And just to explain it for you again, in-state tuition is lower at schools that are closer to MU than it is at schools that are closer to WVU. Look at where the majority of out of state WVU students are from, Pennsylvania and New Jersey where in-state tuition is much higher. How many students do you get from Ohio? Not many since their in-state is much cheaper than WVU's out-of-state. If MU over prices it's out-of-state tuition as compared to those institutions in-state tuition, what chance do they have of landing those students? Very little. And what college isn't about increasing enrollment? What has been the focus of WVU over the last 9 years? Build the enrollment to 30,000 and put bodies in Morgantown. But if MU tries to do the same thing in Huntington, they are just looking for bodies.

Typical double standard with you. You're so "concerned" about these things at MU but it's so great and fine and dandy that they do it at WVU. You are so blinded by your disdain for MU it's not funny. MU can do no right in your eyes. If they grow it's "not necessary and at what cost" but if they don't, it's "they are stagnant and insignificant." If only you could step outside and see your bias. Many have pointed it out on here to you but as usual, everyone else is wrong in your eyes. Search nearly every positive post about Huntington or Marshall on here and there you are trying to spin things in a negative light.

[GottaHerdOn]

Can't really lie there....

[CTMountaineer]

Originally Posted by tbailey1138

So it's a scholarship and not a discount at WVU and is OK but it's a "discounted, Wal-Mart tuition" at MU, even though the criteria for the scholarships are nearly the same. And FYI, nearly all out-of-state students at WVU don't pay full tuition either. Minimum requirements for out of state students is a 2.5 GPA and 22 ACT score. With a 3.0 GPA and a 23 ACT, you get an automatic $3,000 scholarship for ALL out of state students. With a 3.25 GPA and an ACT of 26, you get an extra $1,000 making the total scholarship/discount $4,000. But WVU doesn't "discount" tuition, you're right.

WVU:: Undergraduate Scholarship Office - Residents of Other States Scholarships (http://www.arc.wvu.edu/Scholars_Office/out_of_state.html - broken link)

West Virginia University - Freshman Admissions Requirements (http://admissions.wvu.edu/undergraduate/application/requirements.asp - broken link)


And just to explain it for you again, in-state tuition is lower at schools that are closer to MU than it is at schools that are closer to WVU. Look at where the majority of out of state WVU students are from, Pennsylvania and New Jersey where in-state tuition is much higher. How many students do you get from Ohio? Not many since their in-state is much cheaper than WVU's out-of-state. If MU over prices it's out-of-state tuition as compared to those institutions in-state tuition, what chance do they have of landing those students? Very little. And what college isn't about increasing enrollment? What has been the focus of WVU over the last 9 years? Build the enrollment to 30,000 and put bodies in Morgantown. But if MU tries to do the same thing in Huntington, they are just looking for bodies.

Typical double standard with you. You're so "concerned" about these things at MU but it's so great and fine and dandy that they do it at WVU. You are so blinded by your disdain for MU it's not funny. MU can do no right in your eyes. If they grow it's "not necessary and at what cost" but if they don't, it's "they are stagnant and insignificant." If only you could step outside and see your bias. Many have pointed it out on here to you but as usual, everyone else is wrong in your eyes. Search nearly every positive post about Huntington or Marshall on here and there you are trying to spin things in a negative light.

You're trying to make it personal, which is disappointing considering I had thought you a nice person. It is no double standard. Take a look at the base out-of-state tuition rate at Marshall then apply the discounts. Take a look at the out-of-state tuition at West Virginia and apply the scholarships. Even with the scholarships, the tuition at West Virginia (except for the very best students with a 26 ACT) is higher than any of the out-of-state tuitions at Marshall. And, when you take in the tuition discounts offered at Marshall it remains several thousand dollars higher for each and every student.

West Virginia base out of state tuition before any scholarship consideration = $16,402. the $4,000 scholarship offered for a 26 ACT makes it $12,402.
Few qualify for that level of scholarship.

Marshall base out of state tuition before tuition discounts = $12,482. Take the discounts out and you have tuitions in the $8,000 range for out of state students... a full $4,000 per student less. Multiply that times thousands, and you can see the effect. It is Walmart pricing at its best.

That is the reason Marshall is always cash strapped, and with the current policies that will only be exacorbated. Now, Huntington will have more people hanging around there spending money while the economy is bad with those policies... no doubt about that, but the mission of a University is not to pump up the city, it is to educate the students. At Marshall, especially during the past couple of decades, that has not been the case.

The previous Administration at WVU did want to build enrollment, and that has happened. The emphasis now (with the new Administration) is not on enrollment, but on increasing research. I'm sure you know that. Enrollment is at an all time high, but that has a momentum all its own and growth is mostly in the graduate student ranks now. They are not seeking to grow the undergraduate side enrollment wise. I expect that undergraduate enrollment will actually decrease slightly during the next few years.

And, Marshall is offering those same cheap tuition rates to students from Pennsylvania and Maryland too... not just those from Ohio.

[tbailey1138]

Thanks for helping to prove my point about out-of-state tuition. The scholarships at WVU make out-of-state tuition comparable to the closest competitors they have/where they traditionally draw from. See how close the "discounted tuition" is to Pitt and Rutgers? Then when you consider MU's "discounted tuition", see how close it is to the closest schools in KY and Ohio? You helped to prove my point but yet still don't seem to fully get it. Maybe someday it will sink in. Also notice the bias that you can't even call them scholarships for MU but rather you consistently call them "discounts" in an attempt to cheapen them. Then note you always refer to them as scholarships for WVU. No double standard huh?

And I'm not trying to make this personal or to be mean, just calling a spade a spade. You continually attempt to cast a negative light on nearly all things Huntington and Marshall through exaggeration while pumping up anything WVU and Morgantown. You make snide and derogatory marks toward the two and when called out on it or proven wrong, you never admit your error. Be proud of what you love but again, don't attempt to tear other things down just to build up what you love. Especially when trying to do so using half-truths and double standards.

Here's one more example of the double standard:

Originally Posted by CTMountaineer

but the mission of a University is not to pump up the city, it is to educate the students.

Tell that to the folks at WVU. With all the studies they do on how WVU "pumps up the city" and when the former mayor was a WVU employee, it leaves little room to talk.

[CTMountaineer]

The Marshall discounts apply to virtually everyone in a five state area, and relatives of people who could come from all over the world. How does that relate to "closest competitors"? Is someone from Virginia Beach a close competitor? How about someone from Wilkes Barre? And, they are thousands of dollars cheaper. You are proving my point.

And, the policies at West Virginia are not designed to build up Morgantown. Morgantown is successful because it has a diverse economy and a very highly educated citizenry. Sure, it helps that West Virginia University is located there... it is the largest employer. And the city and University do cooperate where possible. But, The University is not dominated by people whose primary mission is to build up the city. That is seemingly the difference... at least it is to this Marshall alumnus. And, you haven't shown me anything that demonstrates otherwise.

How is it in the best interests of Marshall University to have tuition rates thousands of dollars cheaper than anyone else, with the concommitant lower pay rates for faculty and staff and less resources devoted to the instructional efforts for state residents?

[tbailey1138]

The WVU discounts apply to virtually every student in EVERY state in the US, not just the 5 bordering states. Out-of-state tuition is set based on nearest out-of-state competitors. You can then compete with those close-by competitors using scholarships to match their in-state tuition, which both do. You can't set multiple out-of-state tuitions and charge differently for different states. Other states may or may not benefit on that base tuition that the schools have to set to compete in their "local" market. And you claim that your grandson in Ireland could go to MU on the Legacy Scholarship but are you an active paying member of the MU Alumni Association? If not, then he can't get the scholarship.

And the policies at WVU sure are there to help build up Morgantown. The educated citizenry is there because of.....WVU students and staff. Construction there is up because of.....WVU and the need for apartments and new facilities. Entertainment is provided almost solely by....WVU. And aside from WVU and things related to/connected to WVU, what is so diverse about the economy? I'm not saying this is bad, just don't exaggerate things and make it sound like if you remove WVU that Morgantown would still be fine. And WVU isn't dominated by people from the city, rather the city is dominated by people from WVU. As with most college towns, the two have a symbiotic relationship. Again, the former mayor was a WVU employee and look how the city uses WVU to boost its stats. This was my observation as a WVU student and as someone with family there.

Again, about the pay, the scale you posted showed the as expected pay scale for WV colleges. The schools with more advanced degrees offer higher average pay due to the graduate programs. As MU offers more graduate programs, this will increase the salaries here in Huntington. Check out these two links for openings at both. MU has a low of $34,500 and a high of $200,000. WVU has a low of $32,000 and a high of $198,000. The difference is there are more of the higher end jobs, and more altogether, at WVU due to higher number of degrees and higher number of graduate degrees. Does this not make sense?

Assistant Professor salary of Marshall University

Assistant Professor salary of West Virginia University

[CTMountaineer]

Tim, you are correct that the character of the two towns is vastly different. As you pointed out, Morgantown is primarily a college town and seeks to maintain that identity. Their economy is, however, quite diverse. Many people there are Federal employees at the local Federal prisons and the FBI in Clarksburg/Fairmont. In addition, as the state's primary healthcare provider there are something like 7,000 people employed in that field in a capicity only peripherally connected to The University. Since you work in that field, I'm sure you can appreciate that. Mylan is also a major, and growing employer and there are the coal mines, electric production, and a budding retail market. But nobody would argue with you that the main reason Morgantown is so well educated is because of WVU.

But, you are glossing over a whole bunch when you try to draw parallels between the faculty salaries at Marshall and those at WVU as though they were even close to being on the same footing. You pointed out a couple of extremes, and tried to generalize that for thousands of positions. The fact that the much greater amount of advanced degrees at WVU contributes to the disparity is undeniable, but it doesn't explain the differences at the lower levels of instructor ranks. That can be attributed almost solely to the lower tuition charged at Marshall. Lower tuition = less funds to pay faculty salaries. Either that, or they would have to have a much greater "teaching load" with far more students paying tuition for each instructional position, and we know that isn't the case.

Kopp is playing the tune his mostly locally connected Board wants to hear... that there will be more bodies in Huntington. He is not stupid, and knows full well the implications of acting in this manner. If he gets some butts in the seats, he will be hailed there as a great success and will be able to parlay that into a better position at Ohio U. or Bowling Green. But, he knows full well that by "growing" in this manner it is only a matter of time before the school will have to pay the piper. The economy will not remain in the depressed state that is favorable to schools like Marshall indefinitely. The State's budget will not support more bailouts of failed policies. Somebody will have to pay the rent on the Rec. Center when student count falls once again, as it did after the last recession, and on the new clapboard dormatories when there aren't as many students paying the fees.

You see, the growth he is instituting is not really demand driven. He is gambling that "if you build it, they will come" demand can be created. The problem is, he isn't doing that with his own money... he's doing it with ours. And, he won't be the one stuck with the mess when it fails. He can get away with it because the folks around there are desperate for any hints of success... any at all, and will grasp at any perceptions of it no matter how illusory they might be.

And Tim, joining the Marshall Alumni Association is cheap and a relatively effective way of keeping in touch with what is happening there. They don't do nearly as good a job of it as WVU (I suspect you're a member there too, so you know that), but they do send along fairly regular e-mail updates as well as an alumni magazine, which I have received for years.

[GottaHerdOn]

Originally Posted by CTMountaineer

Tim, you are correct that the character of the two towns is vastly different. As you pointed out, Morgantown is primarily a college town and seeks to maintain that identity. Their economy is, however, quite diverse. Many people there are Federal employees at the local Federal prisons and the FBI in Clarksburg/Fairmont. In addition, as the state's primary healthcare provider there are something like 7,000 people employed in that field in a capicity only peripherally connected to The University. Since you work in that field, I'm sure you can appreciate that. Mylan is also a major, and growing employer and there are the coal mines, electric production, and a budding retail market. But nobody would argue with you that the main reason Morgantown is so well educated is because of WVU.

But, you are glossing over a whole bunch when you try to draw parallels between the faculty salaries at Marshall and those at WVU as though they were even close to being on the same footing. You pointed out a couple of extremes, and tried to generalize that for thousands of positions. The fact that the much greater amount of advanced degrees at WVU contributes to the disparity is undeniable, but it doesn't explain the differences at the lower levels of instructor ranks. That can be attributed almost solely to the lower tuition charged at Marshall. Lower tuition = less funds to pay faculty salaries. Either that, or they would have to have a much greater "teaching load" with far more students paying tuition for each instructional position, and we know that isn't the case.

Kopp is playing the tune his mostly locally connected Board wants to hear... that there will be more bodies in Huntington. He is not stupid, and knows full well the implications of acting in this manner. If he gets some butts in the seats, he will be hailed there as a great success and will be able to parlay that into a better position at Ohio U. or Bowling Green. But, he knows full well that by "growing" in this manner it is only a matter of time before the school will have to pay the piper. The economy will not remain in the depressed state that is favorable to schools like Marshall indefinitely. The State's budget will not support more bailouts of failed policies. Somebody will have to pay the rent on the Rec. Center when student count falls once again, as it did after the last recession, and on the new clapboard dormatories when there aren't as many students paying the fees.

You see, the growth he is instituting is not really demand driven. He is gambling that "if you build it, they will come" demand can be created. The problem is, he isn't doing that with his own money... he's doing it with ours. And, he won't be the one stuck with the mess when it fails. He can get away with it because the folks around there are desperate for any hints of success... any at all, and will grasp at any perceptions of it no matter how illusory they might be.

And Tim, joining the Marshall Alumni Association is cheap and a relatively effective way of keeping in touch with what is happening there. They don't do nearly as good a job of it as WVU (I suspect you're a member there too, so you know that), but they do send along fairly regular e-mail updates as well as an alumni magazine, which I have received for years.

How is Morgantown the state's primary healthcare provider?

St. Marys in Huntington? Charleston Area Medical Center (CAMC) ??? Both Charleston and Huntington have other hospitals as well.. There are 3 major hospitals in this area: Cabell Huntington, St. Marys, and Kings Daughters Medical Center in KY.

Morgantown hospitals are north central West Virginia's primary health care providers. Charleston, Huntington, Martinsburg, Parkersburg hospitals serve their area of the state's needs. Pittsburgh and Winchester also serve portions of the state. Morgantown is not the epicenter of healthcare.

[tbailey1138]

GHO, you might enjoy this video.

Cabell Huntington-Da Vinci procedure (http://cabellhuntington.org/media/newsbreaks/player.php?videoID=157 - broken link)

[CTMountaineer]

Originally Posted by GottaHerdOn

How is Morgantown the state's primary healthcare provider?

St. Marys in Huntington? Charleston Area Medical Center (CAMC) ??? Both Charleston and Huntington have other hospitals as well.. There are 3 major hospitals in this area: Cabell Huntington, St. Marys, and Kings Daughters Medical Center in KY.

Morgantown hospitals are north central West Virginia's primary health care providers. Charleston, Huntington, Martinsburg, Parkersburg hospitals serve their area of the state's needs. Pittsburgh and Winchester also serve portions of the state. Morgantown is not the epicenter of healthcare.

I should have chosen different words. There are other areas that have more "beds", but none has as much medical activity. A high percentage of the work done there by the 7,000 WVU Medical Center employees and the 1,100 Mon General employees is on an outpatient basis. Since you went to school there, I'd imagine you know that. They also work closely with other regional hospitals in Fairmont and Clarksburg including the VA Hospital there, and have a major teaching presence in the Martinsburg area.

It is the State's primary provider in terms of being a teaching facility and in terms of specialty care, treating many patients on an out-patient basis. And, those facilities in Charleston have an affiliation with WVU as well for the most part. It is far and away the state's leader in medical research. I'm not putting down health care elsewhere, I'm just saying it is at a different level there... not necessarily more of it specifically in Morgantown overall.