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You mean like "volunteering" to make the lives of "those people" miserable? Threatening homeowners with foreclosure because you find something "unsightly"? Contrary to your implication, a volunteer is not necessarily engaging in charitable or beneficient deeds. There are lots of folks in jail who are "volunteers".
Lots of homeowners have little choice since that is all that local government has permitted to be built for quite some time now.
No. Taxes are a governmental function. A government is obligated to operate in accordance with state and local constitutions. A government is obligated to respect the rights of property owners and citizens. A government must compensate for takings. However, an HOA corporation is a "private person" under the law. The whole purpose of utilizing an HOA is to have an entity that bypasses governmental restraints and ignores constitutional rights of the owners. Lousy comparison.
Define "collective good". Targets of the HOA persecution certainly don't feel that the HOA corporation is good for them. Deliberately trying to bypass governmental restraints and bill of rights isn't done for any "good" purpose.
What a crock. HOAs do not work like a democracy. The HOA corporation is a liability shifting device for developers and municipalities. One purpose of the HOA corporation is also to disenfranchise all the owners except those that control the HOA board. The mentality of those supporting an HOA is that anything is okay so long as "majority rule" is applied. To ensure the results are skewed, the board (or its managing agent) also decide who gets to vote. With respect to nearly any other operation, there is no separation of powers. The HOA boards and their agents are running illegitimate governments, illegitimate courts, and illegitimate private police who profit from accusations of "noncompliance". "Majority rule" does not equate to democracy. Absence of an HOA is not anarchy. Government exists with or without an HOA corporation.
The best approach for individuals that expect neighbors to be treated as renters is for those individuals to rent. The HOA board does not own the property that the board is attempting to control. There is little need for a private HOA corporation at all except for those who wish to use the HOA corporation as a mask of anonymity in order to persecute other owners. Management companies cater to individuals with these "foibles" in particular.
The "neighborhood" is not an entity. The residents are - each and every one of them individually. Should your neighbor be able to decide that you will be a member of his club and that your car will have a perpetual lien on it for which you must make monthly payments in whatever amounts he demands into perpetuity or face losing the car for the "collective good"? No doubt you would be offended if a neighbor approached you and demanded that so long as you had your car you had to "join" his club and pay monthly assessments to his club or he would take your car away.
Apply the same principle to one's home - the only thing different is that the stakes are even higher. The homeowner is not interested in joining your club and the fact that you and/or other homeowners want him to is not a basis for ignoring his ownership rights in his own property. He owns it free and clear of any HOA corporation and he has a right to sell it free and clear of any HOA corporation. If you want a legitimate government, then form a district or other political subdivision of the state for that purpose.
Your thesis about being able to compel property owners into an HOA or to impose major restrictions or obligation by "majority rule" is not being borne out by a number of state supreme courts that have decided such things despite the heavy lobbying by the HOA industry. See for example, Armstrong, et al. v Ledges of Hidden Hills
Hey...its a free country. You don't like HOAs, guess what....YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY IN AN HOA community. From your comments (and post history) it sounds more to me like you are someone who just likes to be a pot stirrer.
Last edited by LCTMadison; 06-24-2011 at 03:11 PM..
Hey...its a free country. You don't like HOAs, guess what....YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY IN AN HOA community. From your comments (and post history) it sounds more to me like you are someone who just likes to be a pot stirrer.
Spoken like a real estate agent whose business model is heavily reliant upon sales of HOA-burdened housing.
When someone is looking at housing, you probably mention nothing of the liability of an HOA corporation and simply proclaim that "HOAs preserve property values". Do you tell them that you meant for everyone except the owner?
Let me guess, one of your other quips is "move if you don't like it", right? How self-serving. Two or more additional real estate commissions for the real estate vendors. ... And the more problems that occur and the more churn in these HOA-burdened subdivisions, then the more money that the real estate agents make off of the homeowners. No doubt you love HOA-burdened subdivisions for the business it yields real estate agents such as yourself.
Spoken like a real estate agent whose business model is heavily reliant upon sales of HOA-burdened housing.
When someone is looking at housing, you probably mention nothing of the liability of an HOA corporation and simply proclaim that "HOAs preserve property values". Do you tell them that you meant for everyone except the owner?
Let me guess, one of your other quips is "move if you don't like it", right? How self-serving. Two or more additional real estate commissions for the real estate vendors. ... And the more problems that occur and the more churn in these HOA-burdened subdivisions, then the more money that the real estate agents make off of the homeowners. No doubt you love HOA-burdened subdivisions for the business it yields real estate agents such as yourself.
With your belligerent, paranoid, and implacable attitude, I don't wonder that you would have had trouble getting along with a Homeowner's Association, and probably every other form of human interaction as well.
Spoken like a real estate agent whose business model is heavily reliant upon sales of HOA-burdened housing.
When someone is looking at housing, you probably mention nothing of the liability of an HOA corporation and simply proclaim that "HOAs preserve property values". Do you tell them that you meant for everyone except the owner?
Let me guess, one of your other quips is "move if you don't like it", right? How self-serving. Two or more additional real estate commissions for the real estate vendors. ... And the more problems that occur and the more churn in these HOA-burdened subdivisions, then the more money that the real estate agents make off of the homeowners. No doubt you love HOA-burdened subdivisions for the business it yields real estate agents such as yourself.
Actually, my commission does not increase one bit when I sell a home in an HOA governed neighborhood or not, so that statement just shows your lack of knowledge right there. My "business model" as you state is not affected one way or the other whether a client chooses to purchase in an HOA neighborhood or not. I could care less if a buyer chooses an HOA neighborhood or not...but if they do you can bet they will know everything about it, down to the finance reports and bylaws.
So it really has no bearing at all on my business (financially speaking), and since you know nothing about our real estate market but have chosen to come here and spew uneducated nonsense...let me educate you a bit. In our market, the homes in the HOA neighborhoods have actually held their value much better. And again...whether a client chooses an HOA governed neighborhood or not has NO BEARING on my financials. We have enough neighborhoods in our metro both with and without HOAs in all price ranges to suit everyone.
And I will tell you...and I am sure there are people on this board as well as my clients that can attest...I am NEVER shy about sharing what I know in regards to potential major issues in neighborhoods in regards to HOAs. I am pretty much a "brutally honest" person, and it has NEVER cost me a sale, but it has saved my clients lots of heartache.
Again, free to choose...HOA or not. Its a free country. And you can continue to throw your garbage and insults out to everyone, but this is the last response I will make in regards to this, enough of my time has been wasted and it is pointless to argue with someone like you who only knows how to slander and insult rather than make educated responses.
Last edited by LCTMadison; 06-25-2011 at 03:18 PM..
Actually, my commission does not increase one bit when I sell a home in an HOA governed neighborhood or not, so that statement just shows your lack of knowledge right there. My "business model" as you state is not affected one way or the other whether a client chooses to purchase in an HOA neighborhood or not. I could care less if a buyer chooses an HOA neighborhood or not...but if they do you can bet they will know everything about it, down to the finance reports and bylaws.
So it really has no bearing at all on my business (financially speaking), and since you know nothing about our real estate market but have chosen to come here and spew uneducated nonsense...let me educate you a bit. In our market, the homes in the HOA neighborhoods have actually held their value much better. And again...whether a client chooses an HOA governed neighborhood or not has NO BEARING on my financials. We have enough neighborhoods in our metro both with and without HOAs in all price ranges to suit everyone.
And I will tell you...and I am sure there are people on this board as well as my clients that can attest...I am NEVER shy about sharing what I know in regards to potential major issues in neighborhoods in regards to HOAs. I am pretty much a "brutally honest" person, and it has NEVER cost me a sale, but it has saved my clients lots of heartache.
Again, free to choose...HOA or not. Its a free country. And you can continue to throw your garbage and insults out to everyone, but this is the last response I will make in regards to this, enough of my time has been wasted and it is pointless to argue with someone like you who only knows how to slander and insult rather than make educated responses.
Given your previous claim (sales pitch) that "HOAs operate for best interest of NEIGHBORHOOD, because what happens in the 'hood affects ALL homeowners", perhaps your version of "brutally honest" is similarly slanted towards whatever it takes to sell? You admitted above that your "brutal honesty" has never cost you a sale.
As to the point about the amount of commission, no one suggested that the amount of commission on any one sale was dependent upon whether there was an HOA or not. The point was that your statements may be biased due to reliance upon income from sales of HOA-burdened property.
Finally, the claim that HOA-burdened properties "hold value" is rather silly. They tend to cost more - not because they are worth more - but because infrastructure costs that municipalities should have been responsible for must be recovered through the price of the lot or the house. The homeowner didn't get anything extra. It's a tax cash cow for the municipalities. I doubt that the HOA-burdened properties "held value". Even so, any such "value" needs to be offset by the carrying costs as well as the increased risks that stem from owning HOA-burdened property.
Have you approached the developer as a group of homeowners and discussed this? What authority is given to the developer in the C&Rs? Is there no provision for passing C&R enforcement to a group once the development is complete?
Have you approached the developer as a group of homeowners and discussed this? What authority is given to the developer in the C&Rs? Is there no provision for passing C&R enforcement to a group once the development is complete?
Thanks you for getting back to the original post. yes, the developer has been approached multiple times with no response. A lawyer has been consulted and unless we are willing to sue we have little recourse. There is no provision for starting an HOA and with neighbors who are against an HOA little likelihood of the formation of one.
At this point those of us who are interested in preserving the C&R work diligently to make sure our properties are up to standard. We encourage others to do the same, sometimes with postitve results and other times with no results. There are three houses in our subdivision for sale and we try to make sure that people looking at these houses are aware of the C&R if we get the chance to talk with them. Friday night, we were out walking and a couple who had been looking at one of the houses drove through making a nighttime inspection of the neighborhood. they stopped to talk and we found they had not been told about the C&R nor about the recycling station. These folks were ready to put a contract on the house and had not been told there were C&R.
Now I can understand that the recycling station may not have to be disclosed, but surely the C&R must be disclosed. No wonder we can't get it enforced, if people are buying without knowledge of one being in place.
Hey...its a free country. You don't like HOAs, guess what....YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY IN AN HOA community. From your comments (and post history) it sounds more to me like you are someone who just likes to be a pot stirrer.
Aw, c'mon...give IC a break. After all, if you read in their first post they were "talked into" buying by their real estate agent.
See? It wasn't their fault they bought into their crummy HOA...it was someone else's fault! They were powerless in resisting the wily charms of the snake-oil real estate agent who twisted their arm to buy, FORCED them to sign that contract, and, as we all know, gets huge kickbacks from the HOAs (probably backed by government money as HOA neighborhoods are all local governments are letting be built today). Poor, poor IC.
I love when people use statements in like "always" and "never" when discussing matters of preference. I wouldn't live in an HOA if I had a choice in the matter (and I do), yet I certainly wouldn't fault someone for wishing to. Both have their pros and cons. But statements that claim "they all" are corrupt and only looking out for themselves and spending money only on the board members is the most ludicrous thing I've read today.
Perhaps IC_deLight can see the light and understand that perhaps the situation he is in does not apply across the board.
Aw, c'mon...give IC a break. After all, if you read in their first post they were "talked into" buying by their real estate agent.
See? It wasn't their fault they bought into their crummy HOA...it was someone else's fault! They were powerless in resisting the wily charms of the snake-oil real estate agent who twisted their arm to buy, FORCED them to sign that contract, and, as we all know, gets huge kickbacks from the HOAs (probably backed by government money as HOA neighborhoods are all local governments are letting be built today). Poor, poor IC.
I love when people use statements in like "always" and "never" when discussing matters of preference. I wouldn't live in an HOA if I had a choice in the matter (and I do), yet I certainly wouldn't fault someone for wishing to. Both have their pros and cons.
The house is something one physically sees. One cannot "see" the legal entanglement that CCRs impose. By "contract" you mean to purchase the house "as-is" (and likely without disclosure) because no homeowner "signs the CCRs". As indicated by the Huntsville, Alabama article below, lack of disclosure is a problem.
Quote:
But statements that claim "they all" are corrupt and only looking out for themselves and spending money only on the board members is the most ludicrous thing I've read today.
Where did you read that? The statement was that "All HOAs are operated only in the interests of those controlling the board. The HOA corporation does not represent the homeowners and neither do the board members." That's true with every HOA corporation.
From the article below you can tell that some homeowners have an issue when a developer is running the show or when a bank is running the show. However, the situation for the remaining homeowners is no different when a few homeowners are running the show. Invariably, the interests of the board members are not at all aligned with the homeowners whom the board members will attack via the HOA corporation.
Quote:
Perhaps IC_deLight can see the light and understand that perhaps the situation he is in does not apply across the board.
Good luck in selling, Hey Teach.
Here's some light from one of your local news stations: American Nightmare: Alabama Lacks HOA Disclosure Law - WHNT (http://www.whnt.com/news/takingaction/whnt-hoa-american-nightmare-part2,0,4667340.story - broken link)
This article was in regards to lack of disclosure on HOA-burdened property. The lack of disclosure applies to both HOA and non-HOA property. There are even more problems about undisclosed issues regarding HOA-burdened property. Being slave to an HOA corporation is not a solution to your issue - it only creates more issues.
As this Huntsville, Alabama news article illustrates, the HOA corporation board operates only in the interests of those controlling the board. It's no better when the board is a few homeowners than when it is developer-controlled or bank-controlled. At least the developer or bank is usually more focused on selling remaining properties as opposed to getting thrills from threatening fellow homeowners. Even in Alabama.
Getting back to the original post, the homeowner can enforce the restrictive covenants himself if he so desires - and if that is what this is really about. However, expecting all the other homeowners to agree to a new restriction that would burden their properties with i) an HOA corporation controlled by a few and ii) perpetual liens that can foreclosed upon and can never be paid off - is more than a little unreasonable.
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