Transfers out of Failing Schools (Huntsville, Cleveland: low income, home, neighborhoods)

[huffbuffer]

Originally Posted by Madmom2000

Oh good grief. Really?

Yes indeed. To use phrases like African American only helps fuel the racial divide. If you live in America you are an American...no need to emphasize the racial diversities in such a way.

Regards
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[LCTMadison]

Originally Posted by Madmom2000

The situation is that Huntsville is racially divided. Whites live in the south and blacks live in the north. Somewhere along the middle there is probably a railroad track. The statement above is ludicrous. I am pretty sure an African American mom or dad is likely to be unable to afford much in Madison.

The way Madison has taken care of this situation is brilliant. African Americans mainly live in the apartment complexes. Before you get your nose bent out of shape, yes of course many live in subdivisions but by and large they are mainly in apartments. So Madison has divided up those pockets. Look at the elementary zoning map (http://data.madisoncity.k12.al.us/Do...ved_040413.pdf) and you will see that three elementary schools (Columbia, Rainbow and West Madison all share the apartments on Wall Triana/Gillespie. If that same situation happened in Huntsville all of those children would go to West Madison and that school would be a "have not" school. The "have not" schools have little parental support (a lack of involvement on the parent's part, they're working two jobs to support the family, they are often single parent families, not as involved in PTA, no resources to give, etc).

Huntsville is always going to be in a bind until they rezone. I understand the premise of having neighborhood schools. Everyone can walk to school. There's no need for (many) busses. You go to school in your own community with only your neighbors. The problem is Huntsville is made up of "haves" and "have nots" and so the schools will follow suit.

I apologize if I've offended anyone. That is not my intent. This is just the way I see the situation.

Your post is, sadly, dead on.

I do hope that Dr. Wardynski does what he said was his goal when he arrived here to make the "have not" schools better, because it is my belief that EVERY CHILD, no matter where they live, deserves a quality education....whether they live in a low rent apartment or a mansion on the hill.

I do love what Eula Battle has created with Free To Teach to help support the teachers and the students in many of these "failing" schools. She's a great lady!
www.freetoteach.org

[dijkstra]

Originally Posted by Madmom2000

The situation is that Huntsville is racially divided. Whites live in the south and blacks live in the north. Somewhere along the middle there is probably a railroad track. The statement above is ludicrous. I am pretty sure an African American mom or dad is likely to be unable to afford much in Madison.

The way Madison has taken care of this situation is brilliant. African Americans mainly live in the apartment complexes. Before you get your nose bent out of shape, yes of course many live in subdivisions but by and large they are mainly in apartments. So Madison has divided up those pockets. Look at the elementary zoning map (http://data.madisoncity.k12.al.us/Do...ved_040413.pdf) and you will see that three elementary schools (Columbia, Rainbow and West Madison all share the apartments on Wall Triana/Gillespie. If that same situation happened in Huntsville all of those children would go to West Madison and that school would be a "have not" school. The "have not" schools have little parental support (a lack of involvement on the parent's part, they're working two jobs to support the family, they are often single parent families, not as involved in PTA, no resources to give, etc).

Huntsville is always going to be in a bind until they rezone. I understand the premise of having neighborhood schools. Everyone can walk to school. There's no need for (many) busses. You go to school in your own community with only your neighbors. The problem is Huntsville is made up of "haves" and "have nots" and so the schools will follow suit.

I apologize if I've offended anyone. That is not my intent. This is just the way I see the situation.

You can call it ludicrous if you want but it has been proven over and over and over that the races self segregate. Not just in the south. Do you have any idea how many times the school districts have rezoned in Huntsville over the years to desegregate? The city redraws the district lines and five years down the road the population has moved and re-segregated. It happens in most all cities that have multiple school districts. They can rezone all they want but I can tell you right now, there is no way on Earth most of us would ever let our kids go to Johnson or Butler.

"Huntsville made up of "haves" and "have nots"......that is called life. It isn't my problem that some people are have nots. The notion that their kids have an excuse for doing poorly in school because their parents work is ridiculous. Many of those who are "haves" work just as many or more hours than the have nots and many have to travel a lot for their jobs. However, they make sure their kids are going to school and doing their work. Who wants their kids going to a school where a bunch of uncontrolled, non-performing, disruptive kids go?

[OmarLittle]

Originally Posted by dijkstra

...it has been proven over and over and over that the races self segregate.

Yeah, "separate but equal". Where have we heard that before?

[FatTails]

Originally Posted by OmarLittle

Yeah, "separate but equal". Where have we heard that before?

There's a difference between forced segregation and voluntary segregation. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight)

I will say that the self-segregating I see here is more pronounced than other areas of the country I've lived in.

[bluebeard]

Originally Posted by nerdtron

There's a difference between forced segregation and voluntary segregation. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight)

I will say that the self-segregating I see here is more pronounced than other areas of the country I've lived in.

That wikipedia article you linked only references self-segregation by whites. However, in the case of white flight (as well and wealthy/educated flight) segregation is imposed upon the other group. Can you provide evidence that poor and/or black Americans commonly "self-segregate"?

[thinkalot]

Originally Posted by ReggaeBusRider

Also, for Madmom3000 to say it is a ludicrous statement to say "parents sell their homes and move to better districts"... whatever, I did it and I know many that have. Schools are often the highest priority for parents when buying a home... or deciding to move.

If you have school age children the school district should be the number 1 priority when buying a home. Not a good deal on a short sale or any other reason. I get tired of hearing some of these people complain about the schools. If none are near your employer, go private.

[LCTMadison]

Originally Posted by thinkalot

If you have school age children the school district should be the number 1 priority when buying a home. Not a good deal on a short sale or any other reason. I get tired of hearing some of these people complain about the schools. If none are near your employer, go private.

That's really easier said than done because there is an affordability issue to consider, and in our area property values are driven heavily by the school zone. This not only applies to home purchases, but rentals as well.

[Madmom2000]

Originally Posted by ReggaeBusRider

Also, for Madmom3000 to say it is a ludicrous statement to say "parents sell their homes and move to better districts"... whatever, I did it and I know many that have. Schools are often the highest priority for parents when buying a home... or deciding to move.

Of course the school district is the number 1 concern for parents. That's why we moved to Madison when my husband was transferred here by the military. You missed my point; the poor that live in Huntsville that are in the failing schools can't just pick up and move to Madison. Where would they live? Even apartments here are more expensive than some housing areas in Huntsville.

[Mountain Dweller]

Originally Posted by thinkalot

If you have school age children the school district should be the number 1 priority when buying a home. Not a good deal on a short sale or any other reason. I get tired of hearing some of these people complain about the schools. If none are near your employer, go private.

Very good point, thinkalot. IMHO, it is a matter of personal responsibility and family values promoting education as opposed to the gov fixing the problem. We will always have poor areas and under performing students. I love listening to Ben Carson speak. A black man that grew up in poverty that became a neurosurgeon. His mom could not read but she made him read everyday. That is what we need to promote rather than this rezone nonsense.

Here in Huntsville, there are areas where you pass a school to get to the school you are zoned for. Pure insanity.