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Old 09-03-2014, 06:34 AM
 
626 posts, read 649,701 times
Reputation: 431

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BanditoBandit View Post
Speaking of the devil. Today just on Palmer. Heading east into the sun. Cyclist heading east as well with only a red blinkin light. I did not notice him until I was a car length from him and was fortunate not to run him over. Some cyclist are just begging to be hit.
I have seen that guy before. Usually during morning rush and right now Palmer road is becoming increasingly busy with vehicles. I wouldn't be surprised to hear of an accident there one day.
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Old 09-03-2014, 06:57 AM
 
Location: Birmingham
11,787 posts, read 14,420,469 times
Reputation: 10061
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
Oh I see, so a horse-drawn carriage taking up an entire lane is less of an intrusion than a bicycle taking up like 1/1000th the space? Got it. (Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.)
who said that?
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Old 09-03-2014, 09:25 AM
 
2,513 posts, read 2,282,960 times
Reputation: 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by TN2HSV View Post
Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD.
Winner Winner Chicken Dinner!
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Old 09-03-2014, 09:42 AM
 
1,134 posts, read 2,627,775 times
Reputation: 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
Just where ARE bicyclists supposed to bicycle then, on Mars? If they can't bicycle on a country road, what IS there? Be real, my friend.
I am being real. I'm a bicyclist myself coming from DC where cycling is huge - albeit I ride more mountain bike than road cycling today. You know what I do? Rack the bike and DRIVE to a suitable location. That's country living for you. These old country roads were not built with "cyclist friendly" in mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
To be blunt--maybe the country roads shouldn't be so busy. Maybe they're excessively busy from too much "rat running," that is, people in cars taking shortcuts on country roads instead of sticking to the 4-lane highways, and maybe they're the ones in the wrong and they ought to stay off of those roads unless they live on them.
I live on that road and if you read my post carefully, you'll note I specifically referred to two large neighborhoods that have been developed on that stretch. The road is not safe for bicyclists. Old Big Cove Road is a shortcut to nowhere. 431 covers the same stretch with four lanes and a higher limit. It's highly likely the only people on OBC are people who live there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
I am not shy about bicycling on busier roads, but I tend to stay to the right as much as possible (one such road has a wide shoulder that sort of functions as a bicycle lane, and I in fact stay way to the right).
That's my point. If there's no shoulder, I think you're taking a big risk to go cycling there. As for narrow country roads (some of which have those one car at a time depression era bridges) - narrow and lightly traveled doesn't mean safe for cyclists. It might be wrong, but drivers do fly down some of these roads because they're used to them being clear. That they were in the wrong isn't going to matter to you when you're dead. You're wishing for an idealistic but unrealistic scenario to support your bicycling hobby, rather than adjusting your bicycling hobby to fit the larger reality - you have more reason to be wary of the cars than they have to be wary of you, and there will always be people who fly down these largely empty roads. Protect yourself in your choice of route, don't rely on their proper driving habits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
So there you have someone, me in this case, consciously taking the more secluded roads when they are offered, trying to appease people who want the busier roads to be free of obstructions so that they can move on down the road. Yet, on many such occasions, I've bicycled on such, only to still experience a bunch of "whoosh whoosh" from a huge amount of cars considering the secluded nature of the road, when those cars have "main" roads, 4-lane and the whole bit, available to them. I say to myself "there is no way that many people live on this road," and then I notice that it's a slight shortcut between 2 points, yet there is a 4-lane road that does the same thing, yet it's designed for large volumes of cars, and is maybe 0.3 miles longer than the "country road" route.
I don't differentiate between large and small road. For me, its "shoulder or no shoulder"... am I occupying lane space on a road with short sightlines? Honestly, I think some of the secluded roads are more dangerous than some of the busy roads. Old Big Cove is no shortcut anywhere though. I think the cyclists like it because its visually appealing, decent pavement, and there is zero shoulder and very little set back from the road, which means shade.
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Old 09-03-2014, 09:49 AM
 
1,134 posts, read 2,627,775 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
Third, regardless of the layouts, cyclists have the right to be there, and are hurting no one when they're decent about it.
Half-right and half-wrong. I'm certainly not really hurt by cyclists on roads that I don't think cyclists should be on, but then, I'm not the one getting run over.
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:11 AM
 
1,134 posts, read 2,627,775 times
Reputation: 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by CP79 View Post
People that are vehemently anti-bicycle are in the same league as racists and homphobes. Cyclists are made out to be second-class citizens, and their lives are marginalized.
This is one of the most willfully ignorant posts I've seen on this forum.

No one is anti-bicycle. What people believe is that there ought to be a proper place and etiquette - one of which, imo, includes not cycling country roads with short sightlines that lack a shoulder.

It has nothing to do with making cyclists out to be second-class citizens, and everything to do with what is SAFE. You risk your life riding around blind corners/hills with no shoulders - without anyone having done anything *wrong*. You back up traffic and encourage drivers to perform risky maneuvers to pass you on these roads where passing other cars is not allowed. I've personally witnessed several near accidents as cars try to get by cyclists when all of the sudden a car appears in the oncoming lane. It is dangerous.

There are safer places to ride, including many miles of greenway. This is common sense. I haven't heard of a jogger being killed by a bicyclist.
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:17 AM
 
1,134 posts, read 2,627,775 times
Reputation: 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
Oh I see, so a horse-drawn carriage taking up an entire lane is less of an intrusion than a bicycle taking up like 1/1000th the space? Got it. (Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.)
It's a lot easier to see the big tall horse-drawn buggy up ahead than the itty bitty cyclist. That said, and having lived in an area of Maryland with plenty of Amish, such buggy accidents are common.
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:30 AM
 
3,279 posts, read 4,459,350 times
Reputation: 6149
Quote:
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvc8 View Post
This is one of the most willfully ignorant posts I've seen on this forum.

No one is anti-bicycle. What people believe is that there ought to be a proper place and etiquette - one of which, imo, includes not cycling country roads with short sightlines that lack a shoulder.

It has nothing to do with making cyclists out to be second-class citizens, and everything to do with what is SAFE. You risk your life riding around blind corners/hills with no shoulders - without anyone having done anything *wrong*. You back up traffic and encourage drivers to perform risky maneuvers to pass you on these roads where passing other cars is not allowed. I've personally witnessed several near accidents as cars try to get by cyclists when all of the sudden a car appears in the oncoming lane. It is dangerous.

There are safer places to ride, including many miles of greenway. This is common sense. I haven't heard of a jogger being killed by a bicyclist.
If a cyclist engages in an activity that is unsafe for THEM, what business is that of yours. I will tell you--ZERO. "I may hit the person," it's STILL not your business. "I will feel guilty about it"--it's STILL not your business. It's their body that feels the pain, not you, so butt out.

With respect to damage to your car--you just may have a point there, but with respect to their safety, nothing. Someone else's safety isn't your business. The mentality that it is is why we have these idiots promoting laws requiring motorcyclists, and I'm not one, to wear helmets, why people are made to stay away from wonderful rock-climbing adventures or swimming in natural holes, because THEY may get hurt, and somehow we think that's our business. We come up with every excuse--others insurance rates going up, rescuers being inconvenienced--as to why it is our business, and it's all nothing less than Communism.

Country roads are going to invite cyclists, and that's a fact. Don't like it--who says that your dislike of it has any relevance, or should. Open your eyes and watch or commute to work on a pogo stick. You shouldn't be making country roads so freaking busy anyway, that's what the 4 lane roads are for. Country roads aren't for everybody and their grandmamma to use in heavy fashion like it's Los Angeles. That's what 4 lane roads are for--and if they failed to build ones where they're needed, that's part of the problem also.

Another thing--they shouldn't build roads with blind spots and no shoulders to start with. Make sure there are shoulders, and eliminate the blind spots. Cyclists, or anyone really, shouldn't have to tolerate that nonsense, the roads shouldn't be build that way to start with. I wonder sometimes about the IQ of people who do this, I seriously think they have no brains. It reminds me of when I was in NM years ago and was trying to head down 43W or whatever. We came to 43, and one way was west, one way was east--but they didn't label it as such. Instead of "43W {------" and "43E-----}" instead you saw 43 with NO E and NO W pointing both ways.

How the heck were you supposed to know which way was east or west? My friend, whom I wanted to slap frankly, said "the sun rises in the east and sets in the west." My reply: "what if it's cloudy, and besides, why should I have to pull out a compass and use a Boy's Scout map in this situation? I shouldn't have to know sunrise and sunset patterns and times, it's their job to TELL me which is east or west. What was so hard about them putting an E on one sign and a W on the other? Was the sign that crowded for space? Are they that low on ink? Who does that kind of stupid nonsense?"

That's the problem here it seems, the dunderhead road "engineers" who couldn't see their way past a sandwich bag and put some freaking shoulders on the road, and eliminate the blind spots. Yes, I mean it--eliminate the blind spots. Don't ask people to tolerate them, get rid of them. I remember a road that had one due to a very large bush right on the corner of the intersection and it blocked the view. You don't ask people to account for that, you cut the bush down already. Stop asking people to tolerate nonsense that is totally fixable.

All of that said, though, I still think that attitudes are the main problem. Where I'm at, we have plenty of shoulders, plenty of room, yet on the occasion there's a bicycle collision, the responses are still about how cyclists don't belong on the road, even on those roads with wide shoulders. Get over yourself.
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:50 AM
 
1,326 posts, read 2,002,835 times
Reputation: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoleFanHSV View Post
If this is in fact a problem why is it a problem? Why are car drivers forced to take back roads that they are legally allowed to drive on? There is no moral high ground here. Everyone has the right to drive on the roads as they see fit. Maybe because the 4 lane roads should be 6 or 7? Again, blame infrastructure.

Different roads have different purposes? What? County roads are there for access for everyone, including farm equipment, cyclists, dog walkers, everyone. Again, no moral high ground here.

And like a few pages back, someone griping about walkers at greenways. Double standard eh?

Trying to take some moral high ground that doesn't exist. Everyone has equal access to the roads, regardless of your opinion.

For people to drive on?

People aren't obligated to stick to 4 lane roads. Just like cyclists aren't obligated to stick to two lane roads.
I see what he is saying and I think it is a valid point. For instance do you have a right to drive in a subdivison to take a shortcut, instead of a main road? Yes there's no law saying you can't. Is it rude, does it affect the quality of life of the residents in the subdivision and even dangerous to some extent? I think most would argue yes in that case. Most wouldn't think of back county roads in the same light, but perhaps they can be. I think that's the point he is arguing.
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:52 AM
 
Location: BNA -> HSV
1,977 posts, read 3,701,311 times
Reputation: 1518
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
/snip
I take it you're not from around here as you keep saying that everyone should be using the 4-lane roads. In some areas of the country, very, very few 4-lane roads exist and the only options are these 2-lane roads with minimal to no shoulder, hills and numerous blind spots.
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