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Old 09-03-2014, 10:59 AM
 
1,134 posts, read 2,628,847 times
Reputation: 488

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Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
If a cyclist engages in an activity that is unsafe for THEM, what business is that of yours. I will tell you--ZERO. "I may hit the person," it's STILL not your business. "I will feel guilty about it"--it's STILL not your business. It's their body that feels the pain, not you, so butt out.
If I run the risk of killing someone, damn right its my business. I don't want to have someone's death on my hands even if I've done nothing wrong out of my own decent human nature, especially simply because some careless fool couldn't ride the shouldered road over there, and instead had to ride my shoulder-less road because its "pretty and shaded". Maybe you're the kind of person who would shrug off such a faultless accident, I'm not. It's my business when some fool involves me in his suicide.

Furthermore, the cyclist IS putting my life in danger by obstructing traffic and creating dangerous passing situations. Are you saying cars behind a bicyclist on such roads should do the bicyclist's speed? What kind of arrogance would that be? Of course, we know the cars are going to pass... and on such shoulder-less roads with short sightlines, I run the risk of a near head-on collision with another car... even if I'm the oncoming car and had no awareness of the cyclist. ... all because some cyclist had to ride the "pretty, shaded road" instead of safer alternatives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
Country roads are going to invite cyclists, and that's a fact. Don't like it--who says that your dislike of it has any relevance, or should. Open your eyes and watch or commute to work on a pogo stick. You shouldn't be making country roads so freaking busy anyway, that's what the 4 lane roads are for.
I LIVE ON THIS ROAD. Most of these cyclists do NOT. Odd how you'd have a problem with interloping vehicular traffic in a particular area, when the majority of the cyclists are interlopers - and they're not even trying to get anywhere... they're doing so solely for recreation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
Another thing--they shouldn't build roads with blind spots and no shoulders to start with. Make sure there are shoulders, and eliminate the blind spots. Cyclists, or anyone really, shouldn't have to tolerate that nonsense, the roads shouldn't be build that way to start with. I wonder sometimes about the IQ of people who do this, I seriously think they have no brains.
Many of these roads are legacy roads - routes chosen decades and decades ago. Building shoulders on every road would almost double the cost of road construction, just for a tiny few bicyclists who can't seem to pick the safer routes that already exist.

So how about we apply a least burden argument? Why can't you restrict your riding to roads with shoulders and clear sightlines, as I do? Is that really too much to ask?
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:16 PM
 
3,279 posts, read 4,464,502 times
Reputation: 6149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntsville_secede View Post
I see what he is saying and I think it is a valid point. For instance do you have a right to drive in a subdivison to take a shortcut, instead of a main road? Yes there's no law saying you can't. Is it rude, does it affect the quality of life of the residents in the subdivision and even dangerous to some extent? I think most would argue yes in that case. Most wouldn't think of back county roads in the same light, but perhaps they can be. I think that's the point he is arguing.
That is exactly what I am arguing. You nailed it.

Yes, back country roads are similar many times. Again, I am told such does not apply in this situation, but it does in many cases that are otherwise similar to it. In my prior location, I lived on a very secluded country road with 1 lane, there wasn't even a white line going down the middle, and it was all you could do to squeeze a Ford Focus on that road all by itself, much less 2 cars going opposite directions meeting each other.

As it turns out, one section of those back roads connected two towns about 7,000 or so in size. The thing is, though, so did two 4 lane roads, and one of them was barely a mile from us. You would get quite a bit of traffic from people getting off the 1st 4-lane road instead of staying on it until it connected to the other 4-lane road, because apparently going the country road way was maybe a mile shorter.

And yes, when I bike-rode on those roads, as I had every right to, I'd encounter them blowing their horns and cussing, with me yelling back "go back to the 4 lane road if you're in such a hurry. I LIVE on this road, what's your excuse for being here?"

So yes, there is "rat running" in ways not just with respect to side-streets in the city or subdivisions etc.
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Madison, AL
1,614 posts, read 1,887,500 times
Reputation: 1639
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
That is exactly what I am arguing. You nailed it.

Yes, back country roads are similar many times. Again, I am told such does not apply in this situation, but it does in many cases that are otherwise similar to it. In my prior location, I lived on a very secluded country road with 1 lane, there wasn't even a white line going down the middle, and it was all you could do to squeeze a Ford Focus on that road all by itself, much less 2 cars going opposite directions meeting each other.

As it turns out, one section of those back roads connected two towns about 7,000 or so in size. The thing is, though, so did two 4 lane roads, and one of them was barely a mile from us. You would get quite a bit of traffic from people getting off the 1st 4-lane road instead of staying on it until it connected to the other 4-lane road, because apparently going the country road way was maybe a mile shorter.

And yes, when I bike-rode on those roads, as I had every right to, I'd encounter them blowing their horns and cussing, with me yelling back "go back to the 4 lane road if you're in such a hurry. I LIVE on this road, what's your excuse for being here?"

So yes, there is "rat running" in ways not just with respect to side-streets in the city or subdivisions etc.
None of the recent incidents around here have occurred on the single-lane country/farm roads you keep referring to. They've been on city/county roads. Not 4-lane highways, but local roads with at least 2 lanes for traffic, white lines on each side, and a center line down the middle.

Your argument about rat-running has zero to do with the circumstances that have been described in this post.

Maybe you should go back to your very secluded, one-lane country road and live there. Sounds like it suits you.
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:56 PM
 
2,513 posts, read 2,284,785 times
Reputation: 1734
I just took a look at that stretch on 207. Never driven that before, but north of Anderson it has some curves and no shoulder, and thats where the accident occured. 207 appears to be a main road from Anderson to Rogersville. Thanks to google maps and street view. I can't imagine much "rat running" going on there.
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Huntsville
5,467 posts, read 4,724,764 times
Reputation: 6273
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
1. If a cyclist engages in an activity that is unsafe for THEM, what business is that of yours. I will tell you--ZERO.

2. Someone else's safety isn't your business.


3. Don't like it--who says that your dislike of it has any relevance, or should.


4. Another thing--they shouldn't build roads with blind spots and no shoulders to start with. Make sure there are shoulders, and eliminate the blind spots. .

I'll answer all of these.

It's my business when it affects my family's safety and I run the risk of injuring or killing someone because THEY are being negligent.

It's as relevant as your comments. Actually more relevant, because I live here.

This proves what you know about terrain. Road engineers choose the path of least resistance. In the cases of these roads with no shoulders, they are not designed for cyclist travel since the number of cars far outweigh the number of cyclists who ride on them. They are designed for motor vehicles. Considering many of these roads are built in mountain terrain or extremely wooded areas, please tell me how they are going to remove the hills and all the trees to eliminate the blind spots.

This is about as silly as complaining that someone who applies for a job has to wait over two weeks for a background check to work at a dollar store.
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Madison, AL
1,614 posts, read 1,887,500 times
Reputation: 1639
Maybe shyguy is a troll.

Huffbuffer, is that you???
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Huntsville
5,467 posts, read 4,724,764 times
Reputation: 6273
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmrisko View Post
I take it you're not from around here as you keep saying that everyone should be using the 4-lane roads. In some areas of the country, very, very few 4-lane roads exist and the only options are these 2-lane roads with minimal to no shoulder, hills and numerous blind spots.

I believe he is somewhere in Texas based on posts he made in the work/employment forums. Again there is a huge difference between roads closer to a busy city than the county roads we are all discussing.


BTW.............

What's up with this?

"I drive sometimes between the Overton/Arp and Tyler area via 64, and I think I am going to have to start going out of the way and instead hit Highway 31 from now on. The reason--I don't know what it is, but once you're on 64 out of Arp, people just refuse to do the speed limit. I'm not talking about speeding, I'm talking about how they poke along doing like 50-55 when they have full clearance to do 70. I see it all the time lately, even with people with practically brand-new cars."

Isn't this your definition of rat running?



"However, put me on that road, where I'm allowed to go 70, and that's what I want to do, and anyone else who wants to go slower, I want them to move over or speed up, or stop driving. "
http://www.city-data.com/forum/tyler...r-drivers.html

Last edited by Nlambert; 09-03-2014 at 01:21 PM..
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:20 PM
 
482 posts, read 894,364 times
Reputation: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoleFanHSV View Post
I just took a look at that stretch on 207. Never driven that before, but north of Anderson it has some curves and no shoulder, and thats where the accident occured. 207 appears to be a main road from Anderson to Rogersville. Thanks to google maps and street view. I can't imagine much "rat running" going on there.
I actually drove it this morning around 8 (and drove it almost every day for years), which is pretty close to what time it happened. Where the accident happened was at the end of a long curve where the sun shines straight in your face as you're coming around it. It's admittedly very difficult to see along that stretch. There is no shoulder. It was reported that the cyclists weren't wearing protective/reflective/bright clothing and only had the tiny reflector on the bikes.

It's true, cyclists do have the same rights to the roads that drivers do. They're entitled to use them. I just think that better judgement should be used on dangerous roads, especially ones that aren't heavily biked by others and drivers don't know to look for them.
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Huntsville
5,467 posts, read 4,724,764 times
Reputation: 6273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth Parker View Post
I actually drove it this morning around 8 (and drove it almost every day for years), which is pretty close to what time it happened. Where the accident happened was at the end of a long curve where the sun shines straight in your face as you're coming around it. It's admittedly very difficult to see along that stretch. There is no shoulder. It was reported that the cyclists weren't wearing protective/reflective/bright clothing and only had the tiny reflector on the bikes.

It's true, cyclists do have the same rights to the roads that drivers do. They're entitled to use them. I just think that better judgement should be used on dangerous roads, especially ones that aren't heavily biked by others and drivers don't know to look for them.

And there is the point to the complaints that I think most of us have with cyclists. It's not THAT they choose to bike, it's WHERE.
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Old 09-03-2014, 03:28 PM
 
53 posts, read 48,114 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by TN2HSV View Post
Maybe shyguy is a troll.

Huffbuffer, is that you???
Huh???
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