U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Alabama > Huntsville-Madison-Decatur area
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 09-03-2014, 10:40 PM
 
3,279 posts, read 4,448,761 times
Reputation: 6149

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nlambert View Post
I believe he is somewhere in Texas based on posts he made in the work/employment forums. Again there is a huge difference between roads closer to a busy city than the county roads we are all discussing.


BTW.............

What's up with this?

"I drive sometimes between the Overton/Arp and Tyler area via 64, and I think I am going to have to start going out of the way and instead hit Highway 31 from now on. The reason--I don't know what it is, but once you're on 64 out of Arp, people just refuse to do the speed limit. I'm not talking about speeding, I'm talking about how they poke along doing like 50-55 when they have full clearance to do 70. I see it all the time lately, even with people with practically brand-new cars."

Isn't this your definition of rat running?
Not at all, because highway 64 is very much one of the "main" routes for going to Tyler, very much so. It is not a "back" road in any sense of the word at all. It has a 70 mph speed limit, and while it's 2 lanes in some stretches, it's 4 lanes in other stretches. It's not at all like the 1-lane one car can barely squeeze in there roads I've described.

And yes, you do see bicyclists on that road, very often, but it has shoulders and it's straight.

Speaking of making roads straight:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nlambert View Post
This proves what you know about terrain. Road engineers choose the path of least resistance. In the cases of these roads with no shoulders, they are not designed for cyclist travel since the number of cars far outweigh the number of cyclists who ride on them. They are designed for motor vehicles. Considering many of these roads are built in mountain terrain or extremely wooded areas, please tell me how they are going to remove the hills and all the trees to eliminate the blind spots.

This is about as silly as complaining that someone who applies for a job has to wait over two weeks for a background check to work at a dollar store.
That's a copout. I've heard of plenty of instances of dynamite being used to blast out smaller hills and the like. Blast it out, clear out the trees when needed so there are no blind spots, or don't build a road there at all. Seriously--if you can't do it right, you don't do it at all. You don't half-azz it and then expect people to tolerate that situation, you do it RIGHT or don't do it period. It's that simple. As you said, "they choose the path of least resistance," well stop doing that, built it right or don't build at all.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-03-2014, 11:05 PM
 
482 posts, read 893,057 times
Reputation: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
That's a copout. I've heard of plenty of instances of dynamite being used to blast out smaller hills and the like. Blast it out, clear out the trees when needed so there are no blind spots, or don't build a road there at all. Seriously--if you can't do it right, you don't do it at all. You don't half-azz it and then expect people to tolerate that situation, you do it RIGHT or don't do it period. It's that simple. As you said, "they choose the path of least resistance," well stop doing that, built it right or don't build at all.
You can't be serious.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2014, 12:04 AM
 
3,279 posts, read 4,448,761 times
Reputation: 6149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth Parker View Post
You can't be serious.
I most certainly am serious. You don't half-azz something. You do it RIGHT, or you just don't do it at all.

I think too often people half-azz something like that and then expect people to be tolerant of the aggravations from its flawed execution, vs taking their job seriously and doing it RIGHT. That example I gave of the road in NM was a good one of that. What moron puts up a sign for a road but then can't see clear to also add "E" or "W" so you know which way is east and which way is west? The way smartphone batteries have such short life, and we're told to be okay with that instead of them designing batteries that can last for 3 days between charges (yes, 3 days, what if you're camping or the like).

There are so many examples of this. One that's somewhat relevant to this thread--many years ago it seemed every bicycle I had would go flat 3-4 times a week. My response was "why can't they make bike tires that last longer than that?" When a bike store employee said that thorns on the road caused this, my reply was "then you should make the tires to be able to handle the thorns." I was serious about that, and I'm serious about this too--blast away the hills, clear away vegetation etc so people can see, or just don't build a road there at all. Let someone else do it who can.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2014, 12:54 AM
 
Location: SoCal
5,647 posts, read 9,490,244 times
Reputation: 4750
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
I most certainly am serious. You don't half-azz something. You do it RIGHT, or you just don't do it at all.

I think too often people half-azz something like that and then expect people to be tolerant of the aggravations from its flawed execution, vs taking their job seriously and doing it RIGHT. That example I gave of the road in NM was a good one of that. What moron puts up a sign for a road but then can't see clear to also add "E" or "W" so you know which way is east and which way is west? The way smartphone batteries have such short life, and we're told to be okay with that instead of them designing batteries that can last for 3 days between charges (yes, 3 days, what if you're camping or the like).

There are so many examples of this. One that's somewhat relevant to this thread--many years ago it seemed every bicycle I had would go flat 3-4 times a week. My response was "why can't they make bike tires that last longer than that?" When a bike store employee said that thorns on the road caused this, my reply was "then you should make the tires to be able to handle the thorns." I was serious about that, and I'm serious about this too--blast away the hills, clear away vegetation etc so people can see, or just don't build a road there at all. Let someone else do it who can.
Things must be slow in the Texas forums
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2014, 06:32 AM
 
Location: Huntsville
5,467 posts, read 4,689,751 times
Reputation: 6273
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post

That's a copout. I've heard of plenty of instances of dynamite being used to blast out smaller hills and the like. Blast it out, clear out the trees when needed so there are no blind spots, or don't build a road there at all. Seriously--if you can't do it right, you don't do it at all. You don't half-azz it and then expect people to tolerate that situation, you do it RIGHT or don't do it period. It's that simple. As you said, "they choose the path of least resistance," well stop doing that, built it right or don't build at all.

So spend MORE money on an already tight budget to blast through a mountain (and force entire communities to move) and completely clear out miles of forest when you can very easily go around the mountain and minimize the damage you have to cause in nature? Again showing the knowledge you have on our terrain around here. There are very few instances where blasting is required. This isn't Texas. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Furthermore your comment on the road to Tyler is invalid. You want them to speed up or move so as not to impede the flow of traffic or force you to swerve around them. Sounds exactly like why many of us don't want cyclists on these county roads or other areas that cause interruption.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2014, 09:00 AM
 
3,279 posts, read 4,448,761 times
Reputation: 6149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nlambert View Post
So spend MORE money on an already tight budget to blast through a mountain (and force entire communities to move) and completely clear out miles of forest when you can very easily go around the mountain and minimize the damage you have to cause in nature? Again showing the knowledge you have on our terrain around here. There are very few instances where blasting is required. This isn't Texas. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Apparently this is going to continue on and on, so be it, I'm not going anywhere.

Of course I know what I'm talking about. I've lived and been in other places, and have seen what mountain terrain looks like. I've been in places where you have "scenic" roads and fights between the people who live there and tourists who want to drive slow doing the "windshield tourist" thing while traffic backs up behind them. There are cyclists in that same mix at the same time, sometimes with shoulders on the roads, sometimes without. I used to live in Tucson and they had Mt Lemmon, a pretty heavily visited retreat where you climbed up mountain roads to visit something that doesn't look like you'd ever see such in the desert.

And I'm still going to hold true to my stance. I don't need to have visited Alabama to get the gist of what's going on here.

So, yes, the problem, part of it anyway, is that the roads have no shoulders, and they should've been made with shoulders. That road in Mt Lemmon I spoke of, they had pull-outs for people who wanted to drive slow so that people who wanted to drive faster wouldn't get stuck behind a parade of tourists, and if you were one of the "windshield" tourists, you were expected to move over and let people by. On top of that, even on that road, it occasionally added a 3rd lane so that on the one side you could pass. This was on a mountainous and scenic road, mind you, the terrain was what it was and its very reason for being was scenic enjoyment, and you dealt with it, yet you had the pull-off exits for cars.

And yes, people would bicycle up there, and they were welcome to do so.

So don't give me that bull about how the roads HAD to be the way they were. Wrong. Someone took a shortcut in how they were designed, and it shouldn't have been that way.

Again, I think attitudes play a large part in this, based on how, around here anyway, even on roads WITH shoulders, people still throw a fit over cyclists who aren't even in their way at all. Yet, let an 18-wheeler drive 10 mph below the speed limit, refuse to move over, and it's all just fine. That's stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nlambert View Post
Furthermore your comment on the road to Tyler is invalid. You want them to speed up or move so as not to impede the flow of traffic or force you to swerve around them. Sounds exactly like why many of us don't want cyclists on these county roads or other areas that cause interruption.
Big difference. First of all, a cyclist isn't necessarily in the way, at least if the roads were designed by someone with a brain larger than a mustard seed. Second, Highway 64 is a road that is definitely not secluded or out of the way and is designed with quick movement of many persons in mind, and is very much one of the "main" routes for going to Tyler.

Third, those slow cars I get behind, they are easily capable of going faster, all they have to do is press down on the accelerator a bit. Practically every car I've seen doing this was NOT an old clunker or a large 18-wheeler hauling something, but cars that were probably 5 years old or less, in good shape. All I'm asking them to do is press down on the gas a bit, I'm not asking them to never be on the road at all (so long as they can press down on the gas more). I'm not excusing or justifying a shoddy state of road design and asking an entire genre of people to basically modify their life because of a road engineer without a brain (or a cheapskate, whatever the case).

We can keep going around with this all you want to, I'm not going anywhere.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2014, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Birmingham
11,787 posts, read 14,385,932 times
Reputation: 10056
We are at the foothills of the Appalachians. And while Alabama is Beautiful (R), our roads are not build for "windshield" tourists. They are built to get the job done as cheaply as possible and within budget. This is a welfare state and we can not blow up every mountain and hill just so you can have your straight road (with shoulders.)

And letting a semi go 10 below the limit up a grade? Are you serious? Do you know what it takes to haul ~80,000 pounds? Do you know what it takes to stop it?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2014, 09:16 AM
 
3,279 posts, read 4,448,761 times
Reputation: 6149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourian View Post
We are at the foothills of the Appalachians. And while Alabama is Beautiful (R), our roads are not build for "windshield" tourists. They are built to get the job done as cheaply as possible and within budget. This is a welfare state and we can not blow up every mountain and hill just so you can have your straight road (with shoulders.)

And letting a semi go 10 below the limit up a grade? Are you serious? Do you know what it takes to haul ~80,000 pounds? Do you know what it takes to stop it?
Truckers may have a hard job to do and may stock our stores, but that doesn't, to me, give them a free pass either. They're blocking traffic far worse than any cyclist. It makes no sense to scold a cyclist for how badly they're in the way while the semi gets a pass even though it blocks things in a far worse manner. And no, I don't care that the semi is supposedly doing a service, or that they work hard, or "if it wasn't for that trucker you wouldn't have that stuff to buy at you store" blah blah blah--I don't care. The issue is how much they get in the way, and do so far worse than a cyclist.

And if the roads are that heavily used, by semis as well as everyone else, then not only do they need shoulders, they need to be 4-lane highways every single last inch so you don't get stuck behind them (and cyclists would have room, and the semis wouldn't have as much aggravation to deal with either). The same goes for how such would keep people from getting stuck behind the "windshield tourists" who refuse to move out of the way even when they see a parade of cars stuck behind them. I am not buying any of this stuff about that they can't do any better. Enough with the excuses--that's all they are, excuses. I've seen enough stories from all over the USA about waste of resources to know that it could be done if they really made it a priority vs wasting money on other things (such as when Tucson spent tons of money beautifying a median while making out like they had no money for improving the drainage on the roads so the roads didn't flood everytime it rained more than a speck).

Look, we all have to share the road, and as much as the 18-wheelers get on my nerves, they have to go somewhere, those stores aren't going to stock themselves. I get it. But if a cyclist can be told to stay off a road completely, no bigger than they are, then certainly we can ask a semi to be decent in what they're doing, or if that's not possible, they can design the roads better. I'm sick of this worship of truckers I hear all the time, you get that around here too--a trucker could be high on PCP and kill a family of 6 in a minivan, and people would still be praising that trucker like he's Jesus practically and scolding people who want the truckers to stay off of certain roads or be held to some sort of standards (and some of that falls on the trucking company, not the employee, such as when they pressure their truckers to work long hours without proper resting and put them on tight schedules they can't possibly meet). Yet when a cyclist wants to merely squeeze onto a narrow shoulder, and hasn't killed a family of 6 last time I checked, he's booed and hissed. It's stupid.

Last edited by shyguylh; 09-04-2014 at 09:29 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2014, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Madison, AL
1,614 posts, read 1,880,034 times
Reputation: 1639
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
Tough, let them (the semis) deal with it. They're blocking traffic far worse than any cyclist. If the cyclist is being asked to stay out of the way, as relatively small as they are, then frankly so can an 18-wheeler. And no, I don't care that the semi is supposedly doing a service, or that they work hard, or "if it wasn't for that trucker you wouldn't have that stuff to buy at you store" blah blah blah--I don't care. The issue is how much they get in the way, and do so far worse than a cyclist.

And if the roads are that heavily used, by semis as well as everyone else, then not only do they need shoulders, they need to be 4-lane highways every single last inch so you don't get stuck behind them (and cyclists would have room, and the semis wouldn't have as much aggravation to deal with either). I am not buying any of this stuff about that they can't do any better. Enough with the excuses--that's all they are, excuses. I've seen enough stories from all over the USA about waste of resources to know that it could be done if they really made it a priority vs wasting money on other things (such as when Tucson spent tons of money beautifying a median while making out like they had no money for improving the drainage on the roads so the roads didn't flood everytime it rained more than a speck).

Look, we all have to share the road, and as much as the 18-wheelers get on my nerves, they have to go somewhere, those stores aren't going to stock themselves. I get it. But if a cyclist can be told to stay off a road completely, no bigger than they are, then certainly we can ask a semi to be decent in what they're doing, or if that's not possible, they can design the roads better. I'm sick of this worship of truckers I hear all the time, you get that around here too--a trucker could be high on PCP and kill a family of 6 in a minivan, and people would still be praising that trucker like he's Jesus practically. Yet when a cyclist wants to merely squeeze onto a narrow shoulder, and hasn't killed a family of 6 last time I checked, he's booed and hissed. It's stupid.
Have you applied for a job with your state's DOT? Seems like they should be begging you to come work for them and solve all the problems because clearly, you have all the answers.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2014, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Birmingham
11,787 posts, read 14,385,932 times
Reputation: 10056
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
Truckers may have a hard job to do and may stock our stores, but that doesn't, to me, give them a free pass either. They're blocking traffic far worse than any cyclist. It makes no sense to scold a cyclist for how badly they're in the way while the semi gets a pass even though it blocks things in a far worse manner. And no, I don't care that the semi is supposedly doing a service, or that they work hard, or "if it wasn't for that trucker you wouldn't have that stuff to buy at you store" blah blah blah--I don't care. The issue is how much they get in the way, and do so far worse than a cyclist.

I'm sick of this worship of truckers I hear all the time, you get that around here too--a trucker could be high on PCP and kill a family of 6 in a minivan, and people would still be praising that trucker like he's Jesus practically. Yet when a cyclist wants to merely squeeze onto a narrow shoulder, and hasn't killed a family of 6 last time I checked, he's booed and hissed. It's stupid.
I don't worship truckers. I am just smart enough to realize that it is a necessity and reality in life that a big truck can't magically defy the laws of physics and go 70 mph up a grade with a load, and come down the other side and stop on a dime if conditions call for it to do so. Im also not going to equate that necessity of goods transportation with some guy wanting to get his morning sweat on as being equally important. I'm not telling cyclists to get off the road. I've never hit one and don't plan on it, but just pointing out that it is stupid to insist on biking on every road just because its there. That kind of attitude gets people killed.

The bolded statement is ludicrous and quite trollish. You're going to have to do better then that.

You remind me of someone. Have you gotten your concealed carry license yet?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Alabama > Huntsville-Madison-Decatur area
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top