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Old 09-02-2014, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Madison, AL
1,614 posts, read 1,881,023 times
Reputation: 1639

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Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
Boy, talk about an anti-cycling bigoted attitude being on display here.

Get over it, people. Cyclists have the right to be there and are doing nothing wrong, especially when they go through great pains to stay out of the way. YOU are when you can't watch what the heck you're doing and drive like you have half a brain without running into someone. There are accidents, yes, there is also just not paying attention.

The answer is NOT for bicyclists to surrender roads they have every right to be on, because from there it only further entrenches the false mentality that cyclists "have no business on the road." The answer is for the roads to be properly designed, and for motorists to show some respect.

And yes, that respect means no "rat running." To wit:

Trying to take some moral high ground that doesn't exist. Everyone has equal access to the roads, regardless of your opinion.

At that point, I direct you to the Wikipedia rat-running article. In it, you will read how people who live on such roads oppose rat-running because it's considered a disturbance of their peace. You know what--many years ago, I'd called them NIMBYs, but anymore I totally agree with them. A 4-lane highway and a 1 lane secluded path have totally different intended uses. They may both be roads, but that's like saying a pair of blue jeans and the sky are both blue.

People choose such secluded roads to live on because they want to be able to walk on the roads, bike-ride on the roads without having to be so watchful, walk their dogs, jog, let their kids play a little, and they don't want a bunch of traffic right in front of their house spoiling all of this, and they're not wrong. It would be one thing if they lived directly off a 4-lane highway, in such cases they have no right to complain, but in choosing a secluded road, they are accepting the trade-offs--longer distances from the grocery stores and such--in exchange for some seclusion. They have every right to expect to basically be left the freak alone--and yes, that is in spite of the fact that they don't privately own the roads, they still want to be left alone, and should be, and yes, without having to pay for the roads themselves personally.

When many persons drive on such roads, these people who live there are being harassed. They're less comfortable walking their dogs, pushing their kids in the strollers etc, and it's freaking noisy. Large volumes of traffic totally spoil the whole living situation. Again, if such people lived on a 4-lane road, oh well, but on a secluded 1-lane farm road, they are right to ask that people not drive back there in large numbers.

However, yes, bicyclists should be allowed on the 4-lane highways, especially if there are generous shoulders and the like, and they keep out of the way. Done correctly, a cyclist can be on such roads and avoid causing issues for motorists. On the other hand, there is no way that large volumes of cars on secluded roads can be there and not spoil the atmosphere for the people who live there. So yes, stay out of there if you don't live there or are visiting someone who does.
Yeah, IDK what the heck you're talking about. No one said anything about cyclists on "one-lane farm roads". We aren't talking about 1-lane farm roads or goat paths. We're talking about local county roads where, in a lot of cases, there is literally NO shoulder and the white lines are painted almost on grass. As Nlambert said, no one walks, jogs, or pushes strollers on these roads because they know it isn't safe! There's a lot of home construction off some of these roads and if you were jogging or biking and a big dump truck came along, you'd literally have to hit the ditch to avoid being hit by the dump truck.

All I'm saying is, cyclists have a RIGHT to be on the roads, yes. But when they CHOOSE poorly about which roads they ride, they need to understand they are doing so at their own risk.
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Old 09-02-2014, 01:04 PM
 
2,513 posts, read 2,279,402 times
Reputation: 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post


People choose such secluded roads to live on because they want to be able to walk on the roads, bike-ride on the roads without having to be so watchful, walk their dogs, jog, let their kids play a little, and they don't want a bunch of traffic right in front of their house spoiling all of this, and they're not wrong. It would be one thing if they lived directly off a 4-lane highway, in such cases they have no right to complain, but in choosing a secluded road, they are accepting the trade-offs--longer distances from the grocery stores and such--in exchange for some seclusion. They have every right to expect to basically be left the freak alone--and yes, that is in spite of the fact that they don't privately own the roads, they still want to be left alone, and should be, and yes, without having to pay for the roads themselves personally.

When many persons drive on such roads, these people who live there are being harassed. They're less comfortable walking their dogs, pushing their kids in the strollers etc, and it's freaking noisy. Large volumes of traffic totally spoil the whole living situation. Again, if such people lived on a 4-lane road, oh well, but on a secluded 1-lane farm road, they are right to ask that people not drive back there in large numbers.
Then they are more than welcome to move as suburban sprawl spreads to "their peace". Things change over time. Living in a neighborhood to walk dogs and ride bikes where the speed limit is 25 sounds like a better idea than living on a county or state road with a speed limit of 45 or 55 mph.
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Old 09-02-2014, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Birmingham
11,787 posts, read 14,392,645 times
Reputation: 10056
I don't even know the road and I know this "rat running" thing is nonsense. Did you read the Wikipedia article? Diving through a subdivision between highways or cutting through a gas station at a busy intersection corner to skip a light is "rat running." People using the only arteries available to commute in and out of their neighborhoods to work is not "rat-running." Riding on a road during rush or otherwise that has no shoulder and lots of twists and turns and blind corners where cars reach speeds of 45 or greater as a cyclist is taking your life for granted. If two people feel that have the need to ride behind someone "to protect them" and had a friend that was hit prior to that just shows they knew they were gambling with destiny.
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Old 09-02-2014, 01:26 PM
 
2,862 posts, read 3,668,702 times
Reputation: 5728
Maybe it is just me, but riding your bikes on a road where your friend was hit by a car and killed two years ago is a little nuts. That would be the last place I would ride. I saw that on the news and thought about this thread discussing how dangerous this is and how we will be seeing more and more of them hit by cars.

I have read through the posts and see a lot of talk about the bicyclists riding on country/rural roads. I live out in a rural area and there is a group that rides our road at times. It is a big group at times with probably at least 10 to 15 of them and they ride in a pack taking up the entire lane. We all talk about how one of these days somebody is going to end up running right through them and killing several. They must be crazy is all we can figure. The funny thing is nobody that lives out here will touch the road with a bicycle because we realize the danger.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:40 PM
 
53 posts, read 48,076 times
Reputation: 46
The more I see of psycholists on roads around here, the more I think it should be against the law. Something needs to be done before one of them damages my car. Speed bumps are bad enough.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:50 PM
 
3,279 posts, read 4,450,745 times
Reputation: 6149
If all of this true, and I'm making that assumption, then the solution is that whoever didn't put shoulders on the road, THEY are the insane ones. Who does that? The roads around here, they have plenty of shoulders.

Yet here's the thing--even with these roads around here that do have shoulders, you still have people spouting off about how cyclists "don't belong here" and all of that, even when the cyclists do well with staying out of the way by not riding several abreast and the like. So, even if the road in question in this topic had shoulders, I'm not so sure that the answers I'm reading here would be any different. Frankly, I don't know that it's the roads so much as it is people's attitudes.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Huntsville
5,467 posts, read 4,694,875 times
Reputation: 6273
If cyclists had their own lane and I run no risk of injuring them or my family by going around them I have no issue with it. The amount of cyclists on many of these roads aren' enough to justify adding a shoulder to it. Regardless of the road system, the fact is that many of these roads are not safe for a cyclist, and by riding on these roads they create a hazard for motor vehicles and themselves. Plain and simple. Seeing more and more cyclists getting hit by cars should be a wake up call.
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:09 PM
 
3,279 posts, read 4,450,745 times
Reputation: 6149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nlambert View Post
If cyclists had their own lane and I run no risk of injuring them or my family by going around them I have no issue with it. The amount of cyclists on many of these roads aren' enough to justify adding a shoulder to it. Regardless of the road system, the fact is that many of these roads are not safe for a cyclist, and by riding on these roads they create a hazard for motor vehicles and themselves. Plain and simple. Seeing more and more cyclists getting hit by cars should be a wake up call.
Maybe it should be a wake-up call for people to open their eyes. Frankly, maybe the CARS should drive somewhere else if their drivers can't handle the responsibility. It could be argued either way. There is nothing I see written anywhere that says the roads are for the cars, only for the cars, and everyone else needs to stay out of the way 100%.

I can understand a little bit, insomuch that I hear stories of what the Amish do in the areas where they ride in their horses and buggies, the amount of traffic clogging they create. If it were me, I'd be screaming for them to ride elsewhere, so I know the frustration. I feel it, too, when oil rigs and 18-wheelers pulling a home cause traffic to snarl, I want them out of the way. There is a difference though--cyclists don't cause anywhere near that level of congestion. I am sure they cause some, sure, but not that much. If they did, then I could see the point, but I don't see them causing that much drama, so I'm not agreeing with the outrage.

Done as such, the bicycles have just as much right to be there as you do. Adjust, or drive elsewhere. Period. Simple as that. Don't like it--feel free to drive elsewhere, or swan dive off a cliff, whatever.
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Birmingham
11,787 posts, read 14,392,645 times
Reputation: 10056
The Amish take up the whole lane in vehicle sized wagons and have those orange triangles.

The big rigs that pull houses and other oversized loads have to be off the road by sundown.

I can not equate a man out getting his exercise or otherwise enjoying a hobby to these analogies you have put forth. It is a recreational activity. Sure, people drive cars and ride motorcycles for fun, but they have the power to stay up and with the flow of traffic. Right or wrong, some people view it as very selfish for one or two (or more) people to block up a road on a bicycle holding up traffic for a recreational activity while other people are trying to go to work, to the store, here to and fro - etc. So the backlash is palpable and understandable. I would not want to be on the wrong end of the road rage or road apathy or road recklessness that can result from it.
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Old 09-02-2014, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Idaho
5,345 posts, read 5,328,890 times
Reputation: 10984
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nlambert View Post
If cyclists had their own lane and I run no risk of injuring them or my family by going around them I have no issue with it...
Good in theory. However, last December in the hills above Los Angeles, the former head of A&M Records and a big-wig at Napster was riding in a bike lane when he was hit by a police cruiser. Killed the poor fellow. Sure, bike lanes help, but that little four-inch white line pained on the street won't stop a 3,500 pound vehicle.
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