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Old 07-30-2018, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Madison, Alabama
2,065 posts, read 925,544 times
Reputation: 1211

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I don't recall, or maybe never knew ... did the other auto assembly plants have environmental issues and lawsuits when they were being built? The plant will probably pollute the environment less than all the fertilizers, defoliants, weed killers, and other chemicals that the farmers used on the same site.

The groups really should concentrate on issues that can be readily fixed, and are truly wasteful and even environmentally harmful ... such as restaurants, bars, etc., in California and perhaps other states that have heaters ... outside. It's fruitless to try to heat, or cool, the outdoors. What a waste of resources .... Not to mention oil companies that flare off natural gas just to keep prices up.
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Old 07-30-2018, 08:37 PM
 
2,514 posts, read 1,942,982 times
Reputation: 1716
Quote:
Originally Posted by dijkstra View Post
We seriously need to push for development legislation. We could call it the Go **** Yourself code. When we have a major development or highway or whatever that we need to get done and all of these fruit loop environmentalist groups start crawling out of the woodwork filing lawsuits, we need a state code to refer them to and when they go look up Alabama State Code 45.64.201...whatever, it simply reads Go **** Yourself, we are building it.

It is just absolutely ridiculous that these nut jobs can file all of these frivolous lawsuits to try to stop major projects and it just ends up costing us the majority of taxpayers millions that could otherwise have gone to needed road improvements and other projects. This is just another example of how the few try to rule the many through the court system in our current society. At some point we will have to deal with it.

I'll disagree a bit. When I was living in Florida developers were just draining, filing, and doing all sorts.of things to marshland. Years later those developmennts had all sorts of structure issues and flooding issues. That was outside if the environmental impact of changing fish mating patterns that effect fisherman.

So more to my point, I'm all for protecting the environment within reason. It appears that the city and Mazda Toyota have done their due diligence here.
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Old 07-31-2018, 05:26 AM
 
1,049 posts, read 1,016,435 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoleFanHSV View Post
I'll disagree a bit. When I was living in Florida developers were just draining, filing, and doing all sorts.of things to marshland. Years later those developmennts had all sorts of structure issues and flooding issues. That was outside if the environmental impact of changing fish mating patterns that effect fisherman.

So more to my point, I'm all for protecting the environment within reason. It appears that the city and Mazda Toyota have done their due diligence here.
agree, we should do all we can to save and protect the environment big and small since its mankind's responsibility to do so. As long as both sides are doing their part, threatening lawsuits is not the way to go. What's worse are greedy developers who come in and clear cut an area to put up crap houses without any attempt to keep natural features or implement runoff absorption plans. Then they plant a couple stick crepe myrtles or Bradford pears and call it luxury living in nature.
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Old 07-31-2018, 06:22 AM
 
2,376 posts, read 3,036,348 times
Reputation: 4641
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoleFanHSV View Post
I'll disagree a bit. When I was living in Florida developers were just draining, filing, and doing all sorts.of things to marshland. Years later those developmennts had all sorts of structure issues and flooding issues. That was outside if the environmental impact of changing fish mating patterns that effect fisherman.

So more to my point, I'm all for protecting the environment within reason. It appears that the city and Mazda Toyota have done their due diligence here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AU HSV View Post
agree, we should do all we can to save and protect the environment big and small since its mankind's responsibility to do so. As long as both sides are doing their part, threatening lawsuits is not the way to go. What's worse are greedy developers who come in and clear cut an area to put up crap houses without any attempt to keep natural features or implement runoff absorption plans. Then they plant a couple stick crepe myrtles or Bradford pears and call it luxury living in nature.
I agree with both of you. I am just saying that we should have a mechanism in place to circumvent the frivolous lawsuits. As has been mentioned, Toyota/Mazda, the developers and the city had all gone above and beyond to protect the fish and it's environment but yet the crack pots are still going to try to sue.

We have quite a bit of building and development codes and epa regulations in place these days that prevent a lot of the wreckless developing you used to hear about.
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Old 07-31-2018, 07:13 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, Birmingham, Charlotte, and Raleigh
2,301 posts, read 1,424,078 times
Reputation: 1378
Quote:
Originally Posted by dijkstra View Post
I agree with both of you. I am just saying that we should have a mechanism in place to circumvent the frivolous lawsuits. As has been mentioned, Toyota/Mazda, the developers and the city had all gone above and beyond to protect the fish and it's environment but yet the crack pots are still going to try to sue.

We have quite a bit of building and development codes and epa regulations in place these days that prevent a lot of the wreckless developing you used to hear about.
Those EPA regulations are only applicable to sites or projects receiving federal dollars. The rest is up to the state environmental protection agency, which in Alabama, ADEM, is as useless as two left feet. It's so bad that the EPA is investigating ADEM.

https://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/20..._call_for.html

https://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/20...abamas_en.html

When it comes to the environmental matters, there is no such thing as a frivolous lawsuit. It's up to the developer to live up to the environmental regulations in place.
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Old 07-31-2018, 07:21 AM
 
2,376 posts, read 3,036,348 times
Reputation: 4641
Quote:
Originally Posted by jero23 View Post
Those EPA regulations are only applicable to sites or projects receiving federal dollars. The rest is up to the state environmental protection agency, which in Alabama, ADEM, is as useless as two left feet. It's so bad that the EPA is investigating ADEM.

https://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/20..._call_for.html

https://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/20...abamas_en.html

When it comes to the environmental matters, there is no such thing as a frivolous lawsuit. It's up to the developer to live up to the environmental regulations in place.
Tell a developer ADEM is useless. Everyone I have heard talk about them say they are a royal pain in the ass and nit pick over silly nonsense.

There are plenty of frivolous lawsuits. We are discussing one right now in this thread.
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Old 07-31-2018, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, Birmingham, Charlotte, and Raleigh
2,301 posts, read 1,424,078 times
Reputation: 1378
Quote:
Originally Posted by dijkstra View Post
Tell a developer ADEM is useless. Everyone I have heard talk about them say they are a royal pain in the ass and nit pick over silly nonsense.

There are plenty of frivolous lawsuits. We are discussing one right now in this thread.
Yet, ADEM is not enforcing the regulations that actually protect the general public and now getting flack for from the EPA and environmentalist groups. Developers complain about anything because they want things their way rather than things within compliance of the laws and regulations. The opinion of a developer is about a valuable as the most recent legal precedent made in the courts.
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Old 07-31-2018, 10:41 AM
 
2,376 posts, read 3,036,348 times
Reputation: 4641
Quote:
Originally Posted by jero23 View Post
Yet, ADEM is not enforcing the regulations that actually protect the general public and now getting flack for from the EPA and environmentalist groups. Developers complain about anything because they want things their way rather than things within compliance of the laws and regulations. The opinion of a developer is about a valuable as the most recent legal precedent made in the courts.
Nut job environmentalist's want everything their way as well. If they could have their way, we would never build anything else ever again and let land go back to it's full natural state. Their opinion is worth about the same. You see it goes both ways right? In the middle, you have the majority who want progress and needed development and roads while at the same time minimizing the environmental impact. We don't need to spend millions fighting the fruit loops every time we try to stick a shovel in the ground.
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Old 07-31-2018, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, Birmingham, Charlotte, and Raleigh
2,301 posts, read 1,424,078 times
Reputation: 1378
Quote:
Originally Posted by dijkstra View Post
Nut job environmentalist's want everything their way as well. If they could have their way, we would never build anything else ever again and let land go back to it's full natural state. Their opinion is worth about the same. You see it goes both ways right? In the middle, you have the majority who want progress and needed development and roads while at the same time minimizing the environmental impact. We don't need to spend millions fighting the fruit loops every time we try to stick a shovel in the ground.
Most environmentalist are not nutjobs. I've actually worked with the 11 environmentalist groups aforementioned in that first article first hand on major projects in this state and they are quite reasonable. As a matter of fact if anything from my working in this state, ADEM is a lackadaisical and inept agency for environmental compliance, hence why numerous projects have been screwed up or held up for years because ADEM lacks institutional knowledge to even proceed with forward with complying with basic federal regs and policy written in NEPA. The real culprit is ADEM and until people in this state realize ADEM is pointless in its current form because the feds sees this now with hence why they are investigating them.
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Old 07-31-2018, 11:23 AM
 
2,376 posts, read 3,036,348 times
Reputation: 4641
Quote:
Originally Posted by jero23 View Post
Most environmentalist are not nutjobs. I've actually worked with the 11 environmentalist groups mentioned in that first article first hand on major projects in this state and they are quite reasonable. As a matter of fact if anything from my working in this state, ADEM is a lackadaisical and inept agency for environmental compliance, hence why numerous projects have been screwed up or held up for years because ADEM lacks institutional knowledge to even proceed with forward with complying with basic federal regs and policy written in NEPA. The real culprit is ADEM and until people in this state realize ADEM is pointless in its current form because the feds sees this now with hence why they are investigating them.

We had all already figured out you most likely worked with environmentalist. It was fairly obvious. lol
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