Nibco Pex pipe issue (Huntsville, Madison: appointed, insurance, how much)

[Moving2HuntsvillefromTN]

Sorry if there's already a thread about this but i'd searched and didn't find it. Anyway, I moved to Madison in late 2016, have been very happy until this past weekend, when we noticed a leak in the ceiling in a closet in the downstairs bedroom. A plumber came, sawed a smallish hole in the ceiling and replaced the pipe, and right away told us we had Nibco pipes and that they're notorious for leaking and there's a current class action lawsuit going on with them. After doing some internet research, sure enough it seems to be a rampant problem. Our house was built around 2011, 5 bedroom/4 baths, built by DR Horton.

The plumber said our entire house would be fitted with these pipes, and we could have a leak tomorrow or one 10 years from now, so it's like a ticking timebomb for us until the next leak happens. We're not sure how to proceed right now. I'm not even sure who to call or contact or anything. We're debating having the entire house repiped before anything happens again, or just waiting for a leak/damage and then seeing if insurance will help, and joining the class action lawsuit and hope for a settlement, we just don't know.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thank you

[cnygreek]

Insurance won't pay to fix a leaking pipe, they will pay to remediate any damage that a water leak causes. For example, if a water leak created a whole bunch of mold that you need to get rid of. You have to pay to fix the broken pipe, but your insurance will pay to fix the water damage that was caused by the leaking pipe.

Now that said I don't know if a call to your insurance company today would be a good thing. They might consider dropping you if you could be a potential future liability. If there is a class action law suit then you might have to do some digging to see if this is indeed true and then see what you can do to become a part of that class action suit.

[RocketDawg]

A friend is going though the same issue now, and I'm not sure if it's that exact pipe, but it's a flexible pipe made of some sort of plastic. I don't think it's PEX either. He's got about $3K in damage. I'll have him look into the class action suit, but from what I've seen they don't usually help the individual all that much. Thank goodness I used copper when our house was built.

30 or so years ago developers were installing some sort of piping for water that failed. I think it was called Shell Blue Pipe. At any rate, there are several holes in my street that Madison Water had to dig and repair not long after the houses were built. I think there was a class action suit then.

[dijkstra]

Class action suits typically don't help the consumer out much. Usually the lawyers end up with most of the money. However, some of the class action suits over building materials in the past have ended with settlements where the company that made the product had to pay to have the product replaced/repaired in houses it was installed. A good example would be the China made drywall that was loaded with formaldehyde about 12 to 15 years ago.

I can't remember the outcome but about 25 or so years ago there was a grey colored flexible plastic pipe that was supposed to revolutionize plumbing made out of polybutylene. The problem with it was the chlorine in city water caused the polybutylene to become brittle and crack resulting in water leaks galore. This may be the same problem the Nibco pipes are having but I haven't read anything about it.

Depending on how bad the leaks become and how much piping I had in the ceiling, I would probably just replace a section at a time if it leaked. If it is just one bathroom upstairs, I might would consider going ahead and just replacing that entire run since it would cause so much damage each time it leaks.

I remember the first time I saw that Nibco pipe I said to somebody "I wonder how long until that crap starts leaking." I guess now we know.....not long. lol

[LCTMadison]

Haven't heard of this issue, but are you sure your house was built by DR Horton? They left our market around 2009ish time frame and didn't come back until they purchased Breland Homes around late 2012.

I'll have to ask my trusty home inspector if he knows anything about it or if he has seen issues.

[Reactionary]

Ack! I hadn't heard about this either and just read some about it. It seems that pretty much all PEX has some issues (most companies have problems with fittings - Nibco seems to be the only one with 'pipe' problems). I was disappointed (but thinking about it shouldn't be surprised) that the expected service life was only 20 - 25 years, while actual service life has been reported as much shorter.

I recently had some plumbing replaced with PEX, so I'm not looking forward to the future repairs. Hopefully the plumber performed a good install, as that seems to help with service life).

[Big Grumpy]

As I understand it, the Nibco Pex plumbing issue mainly involves the red (hot water) pipe. You can check this older thread: Pipes busting... and find a few photos of splits that occurred in the red Pex piping exiting my hot water heater. The post with the photos is on page 3.

Before I considered repiping the home, I would test the house water pressure at an outdoor spigot and ensure that it doesn't exceed 75 psi. I would even recommend dialing the pressure back by adjusting your pressure regulator on the incoming water line to something in the 50-65 psi range. When my Pex split at the water heater inlet, it was because the pressure regulator failed and allowed the pressure to exceed 100 psi in the house.

[Moving2HuntsvillefromTN]

Well, it's been a few years, sorry for the update after so long. After the first leak i posted about in Aug. 2018, we had 2 more subsequent leaks and decided to just bite the bullet and had the entire house repiped last year (2019). It cost around 6k, we didn't file with insurance, and had planned to try and take part of the Nibco class-action lawsuit but never did because of the time/hassle. We had gotten a good deal on this house so we just chalked it up to maintenance. It took around 2 days to completely repipe the house and it's been about a year and everything works perfectly, with no more leaks or anything *knocks on head*. Not sure of the name of the plumbing company, but it's a pretty popular one because we found it right away just from googling plumbers in the Madison/Huntsville area.

[RocketDawg]

Originally Posted by Moving2HuntsvillefromTN

Well, it's been a few years, sorry for the update after so long. After the first leak i posted about in Aug. 2018, we had 2 more subsequent leaks and decided to just bite the bullet and had the entire house repiped last year (2019). It cost around 6k, we didn't file with insurance, and had planned to try and take part of the Nibco class-action lawsuit but never did because of the time/hassle. We had gotten a good deal on this house so we just chalked it up to maintenance. It took around 2 days to completely repipe the house and it's been about a year and everything works perfectly, with no more leaks or anything *knocks on head*. Not sure of the name of the plumbing company, but it's a pretty popular one because we found it right away just from googling plumbers in the Madison/Huntsville area.

What material did they use for the re-piping?

I guess I'm fortunate. We built our house 30 years ago when copper pipe was the standard. Haven't had a bit of trouble with it. Originally, the water heater was under the house and I had it moved to the garage for easier service (very hard water led to issues), but used copper for that rework. There are short lengths of PEX, just a few inches connecting the heater, but even if there's a leak there it'll be an easy fix. I also added a water softener in the garage and that's been a good move - no more water heater issues except replacing due to age.

[Bamaman1]

Originally Posted by RocketDawg

What material did they use for the re-piping?

I guess I'm fortunate. We built our house 30 years ago when copper pipe was the standard. Haven't had a bit of trouble with it. Originally, the water heater was under the house and I had it moved to the garage for easier service (very hard water led to issues), but used copper for that rework. There are short lengths of PEX, just a few inches connecting the heater, but even if there's a leak there it'll be an easy fix. I also added a water softener in the garage and that's been a good move - no more water heater issues except replacing due to age.

I hate to say it, but there's a reason that copper pipes are no longer being used--pin holes.

Our 1979 Tennessee River lake house has copper pipes, and I've had two pin holes. Both were easily fixed, however thankfully they did just a little sheet rock damage.

Our neighbor built a lake home in the early 1980's with copper pipes, and he's had over 100 pin holes. He repairs the leaks by wrapping the leak with bicycle inner tubes and a stainless steel clamp. I think he should have done more permanent repairs.

I once had a home in Memphis with the hot water heater in the attic. A cold wave hit and thousands of homes had frozen and leaking pipes. The damage to my house was about as bad as a major fire. Anyone's right to move their hot water heaters to warmer places, but a gas hot water heater cannot go in a garage unless it's elevated off the floor (gas fumes from cars.)

Whenever you see homes today being built, you're going to find PEX piping. It may or may not be Nibco pipe, but it's going to be PEX nevertheless. The PEX installs so much easier and faster, and it's much less susceptible to freezing as it flexes well. My new Huntsville home has it.