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Old 12-28-2018, 01:21 AM
 
Location: Alabama!
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Apparently Decatur City Schools are the most diverse in the state, according to an article in the Decatur Daily. Student diversity is not just in race, but also in socio-economic strata.
"In terms of enrollment, 40 percent of Decaturís students are non-Hispanic white, 31 percent black and 24 percent Hispanic. The remaining students are classified as Native American, Pacific Islander or Asian," according to the Daily.
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Old 12-28-2018, 05:05 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
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The only city I might see in contention would be Hoover. It sits in a weird crossroads of cultures.
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Old 12-28-2018, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Madison, Alabama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
The only city I might see in contention would be Hoover. It sits in a weird crossroads of cultures.
I'm not sure how 'diverse' is defined, but according to Census.gov data, Hoover is about 73% white/Hispanic, 18% black, and 5% Asian. I doubt that meets most peoples' definition of 'diverse' (assuming the schools are roughly the same percentages), although nationwide, only 13% of the country is black. Hoover is also socioeconomically 'well to do' both in family income and educational levels, relative to the rest of the state and nation. I believe Hoover has the highest ranked public school in the state, and Madison is second.
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Old 12-28-2018, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Jack-town, Sip by way of AL and FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketDawg View Post
I'm not sure how 'diverse' is defined, but according to Census.gov data, Hoover is about 73% white/Hispanic, 18% black, and 5% Asian. I doubt that meets most peoples' definition of 'diverse' (assuming the schools are roughly the same percentages), although nationwide, only 13% of the country is black. Hoover is also socioeconomically 'well to do' both in family income and educational levels, relative to the rest of the state and nation. I believe Hoover has the highest ranked public school in the state, and Madison is second.
Mountain Brook and Vestavia Hills are head and shoulders above Hoover and Madison, though all are very good, in the big scheme of things.
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Old 12-28-2018, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Madison, Alabama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mississippi Alabama Line View Post
Mountain Brook and Vestavia Hills are head and shoulders above Hoover and Madison, though all are very good, in the big scheme of things.
I'm not all that familiar with towns in the B'ham area ... assumed that Mountain Brook and Vestavia were neighborhoods within Birmingham, not separate towns.

I'm sure it also depends on who does the ratings.

For just high schools, there's this from Niche: https://www.niche.com/k12/search/bes...ols/s/alabama/

For school systems: https://www.niche.com/k12/search/bes...cts/s/alabama/

And another source for districts: https://www.schooldigger.com/go/AL/districtrank.aspx

We're both wrong, except that Mountain Brook is consistently at the top. Honestly, I'm astounded that the courts have allowed Mt. Brook to exist as a separate school district. When Madison formed a school system, they had to include Triana, even thought it's not in the city limits, to get an acceptable racial balance. Mt. Brook is almost totally white. Maybe it was grandfathered since it's been around a long time, or maybe it's just not 'mentioned'.
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Old 12-28-2018, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Huntsville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketDawg View Post
I'm not all that familiar with towns in the B'ham area ... assumed that Mountain Brook and Vestavia were neighborhoods within Birmingham, not separate towns.

Not sure about Mountainbrook, but Vestavia Hills is its own city. Similar to the population size of Decatur or Athens.
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Old 12-28-2018, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Jack-town, Sip by way of AL and FL
781 posts, read 453,954 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketDawg View Post
I'm not all that familiar with towns in the B'ham area ... assumed that Mountain Brook and Vestavia were neighborhoods within Birmingham, not separate towns.

I'm sure it also depends on who does the ratings.

For just high schools, there's this from Niche: https://www.niche.com/k12/search/bes...ols/s/alabama/

For school systems: https://www.niche.com/k12/search/bes...cts/s/alabama/

And another source for districts: https://www.schooldigger.com/go/AL/districtrank.aspx

We're both wrong, except that Mountain Brook is consistently at the top. Honestly, I'm astounded that the courts have allowed Mt. Brook to exist as a separate school district. When Madison formed a school system, they had to include Triana, even thought it's not in the city limits, to get an acceptable racial balance. Mt. Brook is almost totally white. Maybe it was grandfathered since it's been around a long time, or maybe it's just not 'mentioned'.
Haha, man, you need to get out of HSV more.

Yes, like Teko03 said, Vestavia (and Mountain Brook) are their own cities, like Madison. And yes, they split away and formed those cities and school districts long ago, before the courts were able to come down on them for all the race stuff. They now have the best of all worlds....primarily bedroom (and rich), have little retail (but close to retail centers in B'ham and Hoover), and have the best location. They reap all the benefits of B'ham with none of the negatives. So you're right, it would never be allowed to happen today. Is it better than Dallas Fanning's strategy of annexing everything? Who knows, but now you have the federal desegregation order that is destabilizing all the schools in HSV and making them all mediocre, while in B'ham you have a couple of great schools, and a ton of bad ones (city).

And regarding Vestavia Hills, come on man. You can search all the rankings you want, but it is widely considered the 2nd best school district in the state behind Mountain Brook. There's really not much comparison between those 2 and the rest in reality. Financial and family support behind those 2 districts is incredible.
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Old 12-28-2018, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Madison, Alabama
2,550 posts, read 1,123,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mississippi Alabama Line View Post
Haha, man, you need to get out of HSV more.

Yes, like Teko03 said, Vestavia (and Mountain Brook) are their own cities, like Madison. And yes, they split away and formed those cities and school districts long ago, before the courts were able to come down on them for all the race stuff. They now have the best of all worlds....primarily bedroom (and rich), have little retail (but close to retail centers in B'ham and Hoover), and have the best location. They reap all the benefits of B'ham with none of the negatives. So you're right, it would never be allowed to happen today. Is it better than Dallas Fanning's strategy of annexing everything? Who knows, but now you have the federal desegregation order that is destabilizing all the schools in HSV and making them all mediocre, while in B'ham you have a couple of great schools, and a ton of bad ones (city).

And regarding Vestavia Hills, come on man. You can search all the rankings you want, but it is widely considered the 2nd best school district in the state behind Mountain Brook. There's really not much comparison between those 2 and the rest in reality. Financial and family support behind those 2 districts is incredible.
Just curious -- "widely considered 2nd best" by whom? Is it a real researched rankng, or anecdotal? Asking for information, not to be a smart ass.

I have no idea where Vestavia Hills is, other than it's in the Birmingham area. The "search" I did took about a minute ... there are many hits when you search "Alabama school district ratings". As I said, it depends on who does the ratings and what criteria they use, but those three were among the first that popped up. I didn't filter, but the results of those seem pretty consistent.

You're certainly right about the courts messing up the school system. Huntsville has been around a long time, and never really tried to evade integration to my knowledge. I'm not sure why the Huntsville system was chosen to downgrade and not others, like Mt Brook and Vestavia. Money talks I suppose, and makes the courts look elsewhere. Maybe a large number of law partners and judges live there? Is that possible?, but the B'ham area arguably has a more volatile record for integration than Huntsville does, yet just a year or two ago the courts continued the busing orders. Not sure why. Grissom was at one time considered to be near the top of the state, and even the nation. That's not the case now.

I don't know why Dallas Fanning (isn't he dead now?) did all the land grabbing. I'm not sure it served any purpose, other than for tax income without many services. Last I heard, Green Mountain residents still had a volunteer fire department, but have been in the city for years. I suppose it was to prevent incorporated suburbs like B'ham/Jefferson County has. They probably should just go ahead and form a metro government of Madison County, and the parts of Limestone and Morgan that the city limits extend into. B'ham has done its share of land grabbing too though, just maybe a little late to avoid being surrounded by incorporated suburbs. Did you know that the city of Madison is more densely populated than the city of Birmingham? Who woulda thunk it? I guess it's due to 'white flight' like many other places have done.
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Old 12-28-2018, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Jack-town, Sip by way of AL and FL
781 posts, read 453,954 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketDawg View Post
You're certainly right about the courts messing up the school system. Huntsville has been around a long time, and never really tried to evade integration to my knowledge. I'm not sure why the Huntsville system was chosen to downgrade and not others, like Mt Brook and Vestavia. Money talks I suppose, and makes the courts look elsewhere. Maybe a large number of law partners and judges live there? Is that possible?, but the B'ham area arguably has a more volatile record for integration than Huntsville does, yet just a year or two ago the courts continued the busing orders. Not sure why. Grissom was at one time considered to be near the top of the state, and even the nation. That's not the case now.
Mountain Brook and Vestavia are all rich white families (Vestavia more upper middle class). Huntsville has the whole spectrum of everyone that a city normally does, that's the difference. There's no one to integrate in to MB and Vestavia. Huntsville had the white neighborhoods and the black neighborhoods who were zoned for different schools based on location. It would be like if Mountain Brook, Vestavia and Birmingham were all 'Birmingham'. The federal court can't cross those city limit lines, if the city has their own school system. Jefferson County schools were doing this and Gardendale tried to form their own school system to prevent it, but the federal court shot it down. Too little too late. MB and Vestavia got in before zoning got in the cross hairs, but I'm not 100% on the history there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketDawg View Post
I don't know why Dallas Fanning (isn't he dead now?) did all the land grabbing. I'm not sure it served any purpose, other than for tax income without many services. Last I heard, Green Mountain residents still had a volunteer fire department, but have been in the city for years. I suppose it was to prevent incorporated suburbs like B'ham/Jefferson County has. They probably should just go ahead and form a metro government of Madison County, and the parts of Limestone and Morgan that the city limits extend into. B'ham has done its share of land grabbing too though, just maybe a little late to avoid being surrounded by incorporated suburbs. Did you know that the city of Madison is more densely populated than the city of Birmingham? Who woulda thunk it? I guess it's due to 'white flight' like many other places have done.
He did it to prevent the fragmentation that happened in Birmingham. He wanted a united front for future development, and he accomplished that. There's an article about it here.

Of all the good it did, it certainly has hurt the schools, getting back to the point in the previous paragraph. Bussing kids around based on race and scores does not create a situation where any particular race is pulled up, it creates a situation where everyone regresses to the mean, so while you help some of the bottom level students you also stifle your top level students, regardless of race. Many think that's "fair", but it's really a social experiment based on ideals, not reality. It's a very socialist phenomena that often happens on accident because idealists think they are doing the right thing but are gravely mistaken. A school is only as good as the students and support it gets.
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Old 12-28-2018, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Alabama!
5,813 posts, read 15,625,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketDawg View Post
I'm not sure how 'diverse' is defined, but according to Census.gov data, Hoover is about 73% white/Hispanic, 18% black, and 5% Asian. I doubt that meets most peoples' definition of 'diverse' (assuming the schools are roughly the same percentages), although nationwide, only 13% of the country is black. Hoover is also socioeconomically 'well to do' both in family income and educational levels, relative to the rest of the state and nation. I believe Hoover has the highest ranked public school in the state, and Madison is second.
My point was not quality. It was diversity.
According to the Decatur Daily, Decatur's public schools are: "40 percent non-Hispanic white, 31 percent black and 24 percent Hispanic. The remaining students are classified as Native American, Pacific Islander or Asian." Those figures actually come from Niche.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
The only city I might see in contention would be Hoover. It sits in a weird crossroads of cultures.
I figured Homewood would be more diverse than Hoover.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketDawg View Post
I'm not all that familiar with towns in the B'ham area ... assumed that Mountain Brook and Vestavia were neighborhoods within Birmingham, not separate towns.
Mountain Brook, Vestavia Hills, Hoover, Gardendale and more are separate municipalities and are not under any kind of Birmingham umbrella. They all have separate school systems, fire and police protection, water authorities etc. Almost all broke out back LONG before the civil rights upheavals - Mountain Brook in 1942 and Vestavia Hills in 1950.
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