Huntsville Hopeful (Birmingham, Decatur, Madison: hardwood floors, transplants, for sale)

[cobolt]

I've been lurking on the Huntsville forum lately. I work for Northrop Grumman on the West coast, but I am considering relocation. Initially I was turned off by Huntsville, but I think that may have been a premature judgment on my part. What I find attractive about the area is that it seems in close proximity to nature, Huntsville doesn't seem very large population-wise (I'm not fond of the big city), and it's the South! I guess my initial impression, and I am not really basing this on any tangible information other than heresay from visiting co-workers, is that Huntsville is sort of "sprawlish." I am wondering how spread out the area is. I know there are surrounding areas/towns in which people live and then commute to Cummings. With gas prices what they are, I don't want a cost prohibitive commute. I guess I'd like a ballpark figure on commute times (I know these will vary) and if the area is a good place for a single person. From what I read, it's ideal for families. I am in my 40s and not into the club or party scene, but I do like culture and the arts. The median age seems to be somewhere around 37, from what I've read. I would initially rent, but perhaps in a year's time, I would love to buy a house. In fact, three of my main, motivating factors for relocation are: 1) weather, 2) Cost of living/being priced out of the housing market 3) social reasons (I want to get back to Southern people!) I do not need anything big housing wise: just a 2 bedroom one bath with a nice little yard. Those houses go anywhere from 250K here, and those are in the dicey areas. I guess I would like to know if it's possible to buy a nice, little house in a safe neighborhood and still keep the price in the 100K ballpark.

I know my post seems to wander a bit, and I don't know that I am asking anything specific. I am hoping that someone can pick out a few of the above mentioned points and shed a bit of insight for me. Of course, I would plan a recon visit, but it's good to get feedback on these forums.

Thank you in advance for your attention to this.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by cobolt

I work for Northrop Grumman on the West coast, but I am considering relocation. .....


is that Huntsville is sort of "sprawlish." I am wondering how spread out the area is. ....


I guess I'd like a ballpark figure on commute times (I know these will vary) and if the area is a good place for a single person. From what I read, it's ideal for families.....

I guess I would like to know if it's possible to buy a nice, little house in a safe neighborhood and still keep the price in the 100K ballpark.

I am not a Huntsville resident and I don't play one on TV....but I will be living there in a month.

From a west coast perspective (and a semi-frequent visitor to HSV), I can say there is little or no traffic in HSV. Maybe a little on Highway 72 at rush hour, but nothing that isn't workable.

Commute times in hours will be about

Distance traveled (miles)/40

assuming you average 40mph which is probably a pretty good guess. Probably depends on your route.

I found 213 homes for sale from $75K to $125K with a minimum of two bedrooms in HSV and Madison City Limits:

ValleyMLS.com

I used to work for NG on the west coast, once when it was plain old Grumman (Point Mugu) and another time Northrop Grumman (at the old Litton, Woodland Hills). What town are you in?

[deesonic]

Hi there, Cobolt. I'm a native Huntsvillian who has lived all over the country when my wife and I served in the military (Colorado, California, Texas, Maryland, Georgia) and when we got out we chose to come right back here. So, I'll try to give you my pros and cons as a native who returned after a twelve year break living in many different places. I will admit Huntsville is not my favorite place I've ever lived (that would be Denver) but I am more than happy to be home and this town does have a lot of upside.

Pros:
Extremely affordable - Yes, you most definitely can find a nice 2/1 home in the 100K ballpark in a decent part of town, especially if you don't mind a little older home. I'm assuming you're single. If so, schools are not a problem for you and there are lots of nice older homes in decent neighborhoods where the schools are not so great (5 Points, Sherwood Park, etc). This is definitely a buyer's market right now. Consider as short a lease as you can if you rent and do plenty of research, because there's lots of speculation about a housing upsurge here when BRAC hits full force. I highly recommend Sherwood Park to people without kids who want to be close to everything. Minutes to RSA, Bridge Street, Research Park, downtown, etc. It's a very nice neighborhood very close to the Space Center off of Old Madison Pike.

Jobs - Of course, if your transferring, employment is no issue for you. Lots of people are initially turned off because they expect Silicon Valley salaries here. Well, you won't get that here, but your dollar will go much farther than on the West Coast for sure.

Nature - Since you mentioned it... Huntsville is located in the foothills of the Appalachian Plateau. There are nice hiking and mountain biking opportunities within minutes of Huntsville. And for bigger mountains, it's only a few hours to the Smokies or in state places like Little River Canyon. If you like fishing, Guntersville Lake is only 30 minutes from Huntsville. Some of the best bass fishing in the country. The beach is not very close, but a weekend trip is not out of the question to the Gulf Coast of Alabama, Florida, or Mississippi.

Entertainment - If you like sports, we have a pretty full slate of minor league teams here, the Stars (AA baseball), Vipers (AF2 football), and Havoc (minor league hockey). We even have a new pro soccer team coming I've heard. Bridge Street has been a very nice addition to the shopping and entertainment scene here. The Arts are lacking a bit here, but it has improved over the years that I've been gone. Huntsville does not get many great concerts these days, but Nashville and Birmingham are only an hour and a half away for more options. If you can explain a little more in depth about what you're interested in I can expand on that I suppose.

Cons:

Weather - Hot and humid!!! It's the South though and such is life anywhere down here. On the positive, we do have fairly mild winters. We rarely get snow anymore (which I miss).

Arts - Well, I kinda touched on this under entertainment. But this is not a town with a thriving arts community like other cities in the South that come to mind like Savannah, Asheville, Charleston. I long for the days when Big Spring Park is full of sidewalk performers and artists. There is an art stroll downtown on the square once a month which is fun though.

Antiquated laws - Well this is a statewide issue really. For example, I happen to be craft beer enthusiast and homebrewer. Alabama is one of three states that limits beer to 6% ABV, therefore depriving us beer lovers of more than 90 out of 100 of Beer Advocate's top rated beers in the world. These laws ares holdovers from prohibition and they persist due to the power of very strong Southern Baptist presence in state politics. And homebrewing is illegal. Maybe these issues don't concern you, but they are an example of backwards laws that our state goverment holds on to. In fact, let's give the state government it's own bullet...

State government - Backwards and inefficient. Hence the perception of many new residents that Huntsville is an island in a sea of backwardness. Which says good things about Huntsville. Huntsville is federally oriented and somewhat alienated and immune to the ineptness of our state government. God help us if the BRAC pendulum ever swings away from us.


So there's a handful of things you can chew on. Hopefully I've at least given you some insight into life in Huntsville. Of course my bias is evident. They're certainly my personal opinions and others may disagree with me on many issues. Let me know if there's anything specific you'd like to know.

[Southlander]

You asked about commute times...Decatur is roughly 30 minutes away, depending on which part of Decatur. Priceville, which has several big new subdivisions, is 20 to 30 minutes; Hartselle, slightly more, say 40 minutes.
Those are all on the south side of the Tennessee River, west of Huntsville.

[ionlife]

We've been here since Monday and our neighbors and our experiences have been very positive. The driving is only icky when it's "rush" hour along the 2 lane roads, but the timing isn't bad. Also, I've noticed a lot of speeding and rushing in this area because the roads are so open. Several accidents along S.Memorial Pkway and Hwy 72. Just need to be careful during rush hour times.

Our drive to Hville/Madison, was absolutely beautiful. We saw so much nature and campgrounds along the way. Gorgeous river views and rolling hills/mountains. We saw fields of water lilies in the lakes and were enchanted.

This transition has been super easy due to the extremely kind and welcoming people we've met. Many are transplants like ourselves and they just love the southern lifestyle. It's just more laid back. After 9 years in the DC suburbs, it's a slice of key-lime pie topped with real whipped cream to live here!

Good luck--there are a lot of houses on the market--it's a buyer's market here.

C

[cobolt]

Originally Posted by deesonic

Pros:
Extremely affordable - Yes, you most definitely can find a nice 2/1 home in the 100K ballpark in a decent part of town, especially if you don't mind a little older home. I'm assuming you're single. If so, schools are not a problem for you and there are lots of nice older homes in decent neighborhoods where the schools are not so great (5 Points, Sherwood Park, etc). This is definitely a buyer's market right now. Consider as short a lease as you can if you rent and do plenty of research, because there's lots of speculation about a housing upsurge here when BRAC hits full force. I highly recommend Sherwood Park to people without kids who want to be close to everything. Minutes to RSA, Bridge Street, Research Park, downtown, etc. It's a very nice neighborhood very close to the Space Center off of Old Madison Pike.

Schools are not an issue for me because I don't have kids, so I'm not limited to neighborhoods by that criteria. I read on one of the other threads that 5 points was dicey? I ask because I am female and I'd like to feel safe.

Could you explain the BRAC issue and how that would affect housing? I'm not up on the local happenings, although I'll do my best to search the old threads.

Originally Posted by deesonic

Jobs - Of course, if your transferring, employment is no issue for you. Lots of people are initially turned off because they expect Silicon Valley salaries here. Well, you won't get that here, but your dollar will go much farther than on the West Coast for sure.

Transferring employment is, of course, contingent upon an opening within the company that would qualify as a lateral move. Otherwise, I'd have to court the employers just like everyone else. I'd at least like to transfer in order to get to the area. I don't expect Silicon Valley salaries. I am looking, as you say, at stretching my dollar by taking advantage of the lower cost of living.

How would I find out about when contractors are holding their job fairs? I did an internet search but didn't really come up with anything.

Originally Posted by deesonic

Nature - Since you mentioned it... Huntsville is located in the foothills of the Appalachian Plateau. There are nice hiking and mountain biking opportunities within minutes of Huntsville. And for bigger mountains, it's only a few hours to the Smokies or in state places like Little River Canyon. If you like fishing, Guntersville Lake is only 30 minutes from Huntsville. Some of the best bass fishing in the country. The beach is not very close, but a weekend trip is not out of the question to the Gulf Coast of Alabama, Florida, or Mississippi..

I like hiking alot, so that would be ideal, as would fishing. I just like to know I can drive to nature within a few hours (the fewer the better). I used to be stationed in Gulfport and Biloxi, so I know about the Alabama beach coast, and that would be a nice weekend getaway option to have.

Originally Posted by deesonic

Entertainment - The Arts are lacking a bit here, but it has improved over the years that I've been gone. Huntsville does not get many great concerts these days, but Nashville and Birmingham are only an hour and a half away for more options. If you can explain a little more in depth about what you're interested in I can expand on that I suppose.

I'm interested in symphony, opera, Shakespeare in the Park, plays and that sort of thing. I also like festivals, fairs, etc.

Originally Posted by deesonic

Cons:
Weather - Hot and humid!!! It's the South though and such is life anywhere down here. On the positive, we do have fairly mild winters. We rarely get snow anymore (which I miss)..

I don't think this will be an issue, as I grew up in the Midwest so I know about humidity and I lived in Texas for 13 years. I currently live in the Pacific Northwest where we average 275-300 cloudy and rainy days per year. Last year we had 19 days of sunshine, for the whole year. Think about that. Every year I stay here it gets harder to deal with, and I refuse to pop happy pills and sit under artificial lights as most people do. I just think there's something inherently wrong when you must do that. My tolerance for heat is much greater than damp, cold.

Originally Posted by deesonic

Antiquated laws - Well this is a statewide issue really. For example, I happen to be craft beer enthusiast and homebrewer. Alabama is one of three states that limits beer to 6% ABV, therefore depriving us beer lovers of more than 90 out of 100 of Beer Advocate's top rated beers in the world. These laws ares holdovers from prohibition and they persist due to the power of very strong Southern Baptist presence in state politics. And homebrewing is illegal. Maybe these issues don't concern you, but they are an example of backwards laws that our state goverment holds on to. In fact, let's give the state government it's own bullet...

I love alot of the microbrews and we have alot of that here. Please don't tell me that your choices there are limited to Bud, Coors, and Miller whatever.

Originally Posted by deesonic

State government - Backwards and inefficient. Hence the perception of many new residents that Huntsville is an island in a sea of backwardness. Which says good things about Huntsville. Huntsville is federally oriented and somewhat alienated and immune to the ineptness of our state government. God help us if the BRAC pendulum ever swings away from us.

Could you give me an example of this? The state govt here in WA is very liberal, and annoying. I wouldn't eve call it "progressive." Oh yeah....and we're taxed to the ying yang.

Originally Posted by deesonic

So there's a handful of things you can chew on. Hopefully I've at least given you some insight into life in Huntsville. Of course my bias is evident. They're certainly my personal opinions and others may disagree with me on many issues. Let me know if there's anything specific you'd like to know.

I certainly appreciate your feedback and indepth synopsis, as I do the feedback from other posters. Three years of the prevailing indifferent, introverted, social attitude here has really run me down. I'm ready for the Southern hospitality, more laid back tone, and yes, the heat (but that's what sweet tea is for, right?)

[gsp4ever]

We have been in Huntsville for seven years. I live in the western part of Madison County--near the county line of Limestone County. Hubby and I worked in the Research Park. My commute was 12-13 miles (depending on my route) and it took about 18-23 minutes in the morning (I needed to be at work before 8:30) and about 30-35 minutes in the afternoon. It's worse if you need to be at work by 8 am or earlier and/or have to go through school zones. I now work from home so my travel times may be a bit off. Hubby works more in the interior of the research park and he generally allows about 20 minutes to get there in the AM but his entry times are generally flexible. If he has an 8:30 meeting he leaves at 8. Obviously, you may be looking to not live as "far out" but we live in an area that is considered a desirable part of the HSV metro area (Monrovia and Madison) Generally, I never really worry about traffic patterns and will not hesitate to head out to the store or something at 5 pm or whenever needed.

You indicate that you have only a need for a small house and want to keep it around 100K. While this is probably doable, I'm not sure it will be ultimately advisable. While, certainly, there are homes available in that range, I believe you will find the following:

1. Unsafe area. Lots of areas of Huntsville are still basically segregated (holdover from the old South but now largely socioeconomic) so you'll find quite a bit of crime and low-income, down trodden minorities living there. I wouldn't want to be there as a single female.

2. Really bad schools. While you may not have personal need for schools, you might want to reconsider putting yourself in a position where you could not sell the house in the future. Again, things are really "uneven" around here and the best schools keep getting better and the worst get worse.

3. Homes are in bad repair. We actually looked in lots of price ranges when we moved here (mainly b/c we had been told how "cheap" the cost of living was) basically in the 100-125K price range (again 6 years ago) we were finding lots of 40-50 year old homes that needed to be gutted and some even had structural problems. Some had original kitchens and baths from the '50s. Our weather, as you know, brings lots of storms, wind, rains, sun, heat and humidity and termites. Many homes you'll find near the Research park and Univ of Alabama in Huntsville--UAH (Sherwood Park, McThornmor Acres, etc.) are inhabited by older people who have lived there for many decades. The brick home/yard may look decent on the outside but they are just not able to keep it up on the inside. Sometimes even those homes are for sale at "top dollar" when you look at the price per square foot. Also, Alabama is some sort of non-disclosure state for real estate so it's "buyer beware" when buying a home. We've had trouble finding quality workers who are willing to show up to do work--oh yeah, they want top dollar for their services too. My hubby is a big do-it-yourselfer so we're okay. I'd be SOL if it were just me. But I doubt you'd have to spend 250K on the type of house you'd be interested in. That range would get you a nice patio home (with granite and tile/hardwood floors) in a nice neighborhood/desirable part of town and a good school zone.

Really, I'm not a huge "rah-rah" cheerleader for Huntsville nor do I hate the place. There are really few inconveniences living here and it's tolerable in other ways. There are personal things I don't like (corrupt good-old boy politics and the storm seasons especially) and the fact that the infrastructure and urban planning is very poor considering the growth. The people are sort of bland--lots of engineers and "new money" types who like like their McMansions and big SUVs and bragging about living in a certain neighborhood, school zones or being stay-at-home moms. This coupled with old time Alabama "country folks" who've sold their cotton fields for development or become wealthy developers themselves. It can be a weird combination actually. But we have good recycling programs and trash/waste pick-up and incineration so it's not totally weird either. You'll see big lines of SUVs and Mini-vans going to the landfill on the first Saturday of the month to do the hazmat disposal, so I suppose there is some environmental conciousness around here.

I think that Huntsville gets a bad rap because it is located in Alabama. But it's not really like other parts of this state. I wouldn't hesitate to live in this area or Birmingham (over the mountain) though I cried when I found out we were moving to Alabama--and we're from a neighboring Southern state. We've looked in other areas of the US (Raleigh, Phoenix, Silicon Valley) but the cost of living is too high relative to the salary and cost of living we have in Huntsville. I know we found tech jobs that paid only $15-20K more in California and it just didn't seem to be worth it.

[gsp4ever]

Let me add another thing, to soften what may be seen as a negative post. I have found lots of people who really enjoy living here. As I think about my immediate neighbors who came here from Alaska, Hawaii, Florida, Michigan, Kansas, Mississippi, Ohio and across town, most people are pretty happy here. No place is perfect. It's live and let live and people from different backgrounds, culturally and racially interact well in our neighborhood. But there are lots of transient people here, too, so people come and go from Huntsville.

When I first found out about moving to Huntsville, I started running into lots of people who lived in Huntsville previously or who had friends or relative who had lived, or still live here. Funny how that happens. Everyone seemed to enjoy their time in HSV (and speak fondly of it) and they found it to be a nice place to visit.

[here4more]

I think that you will find HSV is a wonderful place to live. As stated previously, the scenery is beautiful.

Here’s a good link for you: Huntsville/Madison County Convention & Visitor's Bureau Website

AND…

We have movies in the park: 2008 Concerts in the Park Schedule

Galaxy of lights @ Xmas: Galaxy of Light - Christmas Lights - Holiday Events in Huntsville

Big Spring Jam: Big Spring Jam XVI

Panoply: Panoply - Home

The Huntsville Land Trust does a good job at making certain not every piece of dirt is used for development: Properties (good hiking)

Burritt on the Mountain (features hiking trails): Burritt on the Mountain - Home

Three Caves in Blossomwood area: Three Caves

The newly opened Bridgestreet, the talk of the town: Bridge Street Town Centre


You'll be close enough to just about anything that you'd wanna do... Nashville, B'ham, ATL, Chattanooga, Tunica, Gatlinburg… you’re right in the center of everything! So…
Com’on down… We'd love to have you make our home, your home!

Peace & Blessings,

::Here4More::

[cobolt]

Originally Posted by gsp4ever

We have been in Huntsville for seven years. I live in the western part of Madison County--near the county line of Limestone County. Hubby and I worked in the Research Park. My commute was 12-13 miles (depending on my route) and it took about 18-23 minutes in the morning (I needed to be at work before 8:30) and about 30-35 minutes in the afternoon. It's worse if you need to be at work by 8 am or earlier and/or have to go through school zones. I now work from home so my travel times may be a bit off. Hubby works more in the interior of the research park and he generally allows about 20 minutes to get there in the AM but his entry times are generally flexible. If he has an 8:30 meeting he leaves at 8. Obviously, you may be looking to not live as "far out" but we live in an area that is considered a desirable part of the HSV metro area (Monrovia and Madison) Generally, I never really worry about traffic patterns and will not hesitate to head out to the store or something at 5 pm or whenever needed.

You indicate that you have only a need for a small house and want to keep it around 100K. While this is probably doable, I'm not sure it will be ultimately advisable. While, certainly, there are homes available in that range, I believe you will find the following:

1. Unsafe area. Lots of areas of Huntsville are still basically segregated (holdover from the old South but now largely socioeconomic) so you'll find quite a bit of crime and low-income, down trodden minorities living there. I wouldn't want to be there as a single female.

2. Really bad schools. While you may not have personal need for schools, you might want to reconsider putting yourself in a position where you could not sell the house in the future. Again, things are really "uneven" around here and the best schools keep getting better and the worst get worse.

3. Homes are in bad repair. We actually looked in lots of price ranges when we moved here (mainly b/c we had been told how "cheap" the cost of living was) basically in the 100-125K price range (again 6 years ago) we were finding lots of 40-50 year old homes that needed to be gutted and some even had structural problems. Some had original kitchens and baths from the '50s. Our weather, as you know, brings lots of storms, wind, rains, sun, heat and humidity and termites. Many homes you'll find near the Research park and Univ of Alabama in Huntsville--UAH (Sherwood Park, McThornmor Acres, etc.) are inhabited by older people who have lived there for many decades. The brick home/yard may look decent on the outside but they are just not able to keep it up on the inside. Sometimes even those homes are for sale at "top dollar" when you look at the price per square foot. Also, Alabama is some sort of non-disclosure state for real estate so it's "buyer beware" when buying a home. We've had trouble finding quality workers who are willing to show up to do work--oh yeah, they want top dollar for their services too. My hubby is a big do-it-yourselfer so we're okay. I'd be SOL if it were just me. But I doubt you'd have to spend 250K on the type of house you'd be interested in. That range would get you a nice patio home (with granite and tile/hardwood floors) in a nice neighborhood/desirable part of town and a good school zone.

Really, I'm not a huge "rah-rah" cheerleader for Huntsville nor do I hate the place. There are really few inconveniences living here and it's tolerable in other ways. There are personal things I don't like (corrupt good-old boy politics and the storm seasons especially) and the fact that the infrastructure and urban planning is very poor considering the growth. The people are sort of bland--lots of engineers and "new money" types who like like their McMansions and big SUVs and bragging about living in a certain neighborhood, school zones or being stay-at-home moms. This coupled with old time Alabama "country folks" who've sold their cotton fields for development or become wealthy developers themselves. It can be a weird combination actually. But we have good recycling programs and trash/waste pick-up and incineration so it's not totally weird either. You'll see big lines of SUVs and Mini-vans going to the landfill on the first Saturday of the month to do the hazmat disposal, so I suppose there is some environmental conciousness around here.

I think that Huntsville gets a bad rap because it is located in Alabama. But it's not really like other parts of this state. I wouldn't hesitate to live in this area or Birmingham (over the mountain) though I cried when I found out we were moving to Alabama--and we're from a neighboring Southern state. We've looked in other areas of the US (Raleigh, Phoenix, Silicon Valley) but the cost of living is too high relative to the salary and cost of living we have in Huntsville. I know we found tech jobs that paid only $15-20K more in California and it just didn't seem to be worth it.

Thank you so much for your informative post. I do agree that many cities in the South get a bad rap because of their common perception from outsiders. Louisville, Kentucky comes to mind. It's a great city, but because it's in Kentucky, many people think you'll find lots of inbreeders and redneck neighbors. Heck, you'll find those types in my home city of Chicago! So it goes. Sadly, Louisville is not a tech market, although Lexington is. However, Lex is also a big, college town (and that presents its own set of problems). During my Lexington visit, I thought it had an incredible amount of traffic and lack of road infrastructure and forward thinking for its population base, while Louisville, which has slightly over 4x the population, is easier to navigate and has less gridlock.

Anyway, I'd really like to stay in the defense industry, which is why I am looking at HSV. I'm not interested in being on either coast, so that's out.

I'm wondering, if the 100K houses may either be sketchy or simply too much work, what would you say is a better price range? 150K? I don't want to get into the 250k+ madness for a crackerbox in a dump as we have here.

Do you find that there is religious tolerance in HSV? I say this because I've experienced some exclusionary behavior from those tooting the "Christian" horn. I'm tolerant and respectful of others' views and beliefs, yet I don't want theirs shoved down my throat or to be excluded from a social circle because I don't attend the "right church," and sadly, I've seen this happen. I can deal with it. I just wonder how common that is.