Great School Analysis (Huntsville, Hoover, Madison: houses, best schools, median income)

[BKOTH97]

From al.com:

"Five Huntsville schools failed to make what the federal government calls "adequate yearly progress" or AYP, according to reports released this morning by the state Department of Education. That's down from 10 last year. Three schools in Madison County also missed the mark, up from just one last year.
According to the "accountability reports," four area high schools were cited for low passing rates on the reading portion of the state's graduation exam.
Those are Butler High, Johnson High and Lee High in Huntsville City Schools and Sparkman High in Madison County Schools."

Austin and Decatur High Schools also failed to make AYP, but they aren't in the article.

Looks like Madison City is the only local system spared...

Five Huntsville schools miss mark on federal report - Breaking News from The Huntsville Times - al.com



Go here for all the data:
ALSDE Accountability Main Page

[gsp4ever]

Also, Madison County HS failed to make the required graduation rate along with Sparkman. This is certainly bad news especially when you consider how very few of Alabama's public schools DID NOT meet the goals. (1140 out of 1367 state schools met all goals). Well, this ought to keep the news media busy for a few days

[Marc45002]

I went through the data and can't find out anything about Williams Elementary; I probably don't know where to look. Is there anything listed? Improvement?

thanks,

Marc

[ionlife]

Originally Posted by gsp4ever

Cglover--you are right. The children of the engineers, scientists, professionals etc.etc. aren't going to the failing schools. Quite frankly, once those people pay the premium to live in Monrovia, Madison, SE HSV and/or Hampton Cove, I doubt very seriously they give a second thought to those kids in the "bad schools". Quite a bit of "bragging rights" with what school zone you live in or where your kids go to school in this area, IMO, and a lot of bickering among people in town about which school is better. It's really sad, actually.

Well, I know I certainly didn't choose the school district we're in for "bragging rights." I chose it because it was the right fit for our family and our child. Frankly, we've paid our dues--in spades. I cannot tell you how frustrating it was early on in VA when my child was used as a "buffer" to keep the naughty, non focused children in place. An Art teacher flat out told me that she often sat my daughter next to the most boisterous troublemaker in her class because it HELPED HER control the class. How fair is that? The school my child was zoned for in Fairfax has a reputation for gangs in place--to quote a police officer who came to take our statement after we were attacked outside a movie theater (in our car thank God!) by gang members, her HS was "infused with gang members."

Moving here was a blessing. And yes, I did choose a school district where the odds of gang violence and low achievement were the exception, not the rule. But that doesn't mean I stopped caring for the children in the "bad" schools. The question is, when do their families START TO CARE?

There are two sides to every coin.

JMO and my experience.

[vakinderegg]

Marc, Williams is listed on Great schools. It is a feeder school for the Redstone kids as well as kids who live around Redstone. I did see some beautiful homes in the Williams school area, but William school did not fit my expectation as a school that I want to send my child. Very low test scores. I guess with all the new construction perhaps eventually the test scores might change because of demanding educated parents.I know Lake Forest is part of Williams.
Elementary schools in Huntsville City School District It is called James E Williams School
1-10 of 33 elementary schools within the Huntsville City School District, sorted by school name.
1-10 11-20 21-30 31-33 next > | Show all >
<DIV id=compareTabs> table#compareTableTabs { padding-left:1px; }

[gsp4ever]

Cglover--You don't have to justify to me why you chose to live in Madison and send your kids to Bob Jones. Umm--maybe I should have made two paragraphs because I'm not attacking you personally. I'm simply commenting based on my experience living in Huntsville for more than seven years and working with nearly every high school in the area. I stand by my observation about the general attitudes of folks in this area and their quest for "bragging rights" about their neighborhoods and schools. People ask me which area of town I'm in all the time and then usually follow it up with a question about school zone.

[BKOTH97]

Originally Posted by gsp4ever

Cglover--You don't have to justify to me why you chose to live in Madison and send your kids to Bob Jones. Umm--maybe I should have made two paragraphs because I'm not attacking you personally. I'm simply commenting based on my experience living in Huntsville for more than seven years and working with nearly every high school in the area. I stand by my observation about the general attitudes of folks in this area and their quest for "bragging rights" about their neighborhoods and schools.

I wish we had more people interested in "bragging rights" about having the best schools. Maybe then we would properly support and fund them. Competition and pride in one's city/district can be used to drive more than just Football success.

We chose to live in Madison because we feel that it offers the best public education available in the area. If we lived in any other district, except maybe Grissom, we would send our kids to private school. You can call that "bragging rights" if you wish, but I call it common sense.

Schools are the #1 reason why we will never see annexation of Madison by Huntsville, even though I would love to see it happen for many other reasons.

[gsp4ever]

BKOTH97--I'm with you on quality public education for all. That is something that is lacking around here. But, it goes beyond just $$$$. Throwing money at everything doesn't always equal success. Huntsville and Madison County have some real "good ol' boy" aspects to them and it's reflected in the leadership and, subsequently, political decisions that are made for the area. Madison less so.

I'm sorry that everyone is so offended at the notion that people in this area brag about where they live and where their kids go to school. It's true and the longer you live here the more you'll notice it. Let me throw another one out there for everyone to get upset about. It's a huge badge of honor to be a stay at home mom or a women who "doesn't have to work" in this area. I'm sure people start out with good intentions about doing what is best for their family, but it quickly turns into the nosy neighbor syndrome where everyone has to ask bunches of questions to size you up, for example:
1. Where do you live/what neighborhood do you live in
2. What school zone are you in/where do your kids go to school
3. Do you work "outside the home"/ are you staying at home with the kids
4. Where do you work/what do you do for a living
5. Auburn or Alabama (just kidding --well no not really)

BTW--Madison will never be annexed by Huntsville because Madison is its own, independent city with its own independent leadership. That would be like Dallas trying to annex Fort Worth.

[BKOTH97]

Originally Posted by gsp4ever

BKOTH97--I'm with you on quality public education for all. That is something that is lacking around here. But, it goes beyond just $$$$. Throwing money at everything doesn't always equal success. Huntsville and Madison County have some real "good ol' boy" aspects to them and it's reflected in the leadership and, subsequently, political decisions that are made for the area. Madison less so.

I'm sorry that everyone is so offended at the notion that people in this area brag about where they live and where their kids go to school. It's true and the longer you live here the more you'll notice it. Let me throw another one out there for everyone to get upset about. It's a huge badge of honor to be a stay at home mom or a women who "doesn't have to work" in this area. I'm sure people start out with good intentions about doing what is best for their family, but it quickly turns into the nosy neighbor syndrome where everyone has to ask bunches of questions to size you up, for example:
1. Where do you live/what neighborhood do you live in
2. What school zone are you in/where do your kids go to school
3. Do you work "outside the home"/ are you staying at home with the kids
4. Where do you work/what do you do for a living
5. Auburn or Alabama (just kidding --well no not really)

BTW--Madison will never be annexed by Huntsville because Madison is its own, independent city with its own independent leadership. That would be like Dallas trying to annex Fort Worth.

I'm not offended by it. I revel in it. "Bragging Rights" and competition between school systems is good.

You are right, throwing money at something doesn't always equal success, but the basic funding must be there. It isn't.

When I meet someone, those are basically the first questions I ask of someone (except maybe #3 as I typically am not talking to the women). How else are you supposed to get to know someone?

You may or may not know, but there was a vote in the 1980s on annexation of Madison into Huntsville. It failed. There is a movement, although not very vocal, to create a metro government. This would essentially put all of Madison county into one metro government / school system.

[BKOTH97]

I just did a quick statistical analysis on the School Data Direct data for all school systems within 100 miles of Huntsville. This totaled about 61 systems from roughly Birmingham north.

I compared the total of Math Proficiency and Reading Proficiency to the total expenditures per student. BLUF, there is a trend that shows more funding per student does correlate to higher proficency ratings. The increase using a linear method shows about a 1% increase in total score (.5% per test) for every additional $430 spent per student. That means that on average a school system that if a school system scored 77% on both Math and Reading and spent $11,000, then a school that spent $11,800 could expect to score 78% on both Math and Reading. Again, these use averages. I can dig deeper and more specifically later. The top 10 performing school systems from a price / performance perspective are:

1) Arab City
2) Madison City
3) Winfield City
4) Oneonta City
5) St. Clair County
6) Etowah County
7) Jacksonville City
8) Madison County
9) Hartselle City
10) Calhoun County

To be clear, this calculation does not mean that they had the highest scores, but that they provided the best value by scoring the highest given the amount of funding provided.

The bottom 10 are in one of two camps. Either they are simply very poor school systems or they are dramatically over funded for the performance that they return. Homewood falls in the latter category. They have good school performance, but they pay a very high dollar value for scores that are no better than Arab or Madison City.

61) Tarrant City
60) Sheffield City
59) Anniston City
58) Birmingham City
57) Florence City
56) Homewood City
55) Midfield City
54) Gadsden City
53) Leeds City
52) Huntsville City
52) Talladega City
52) Decatur City
52) Colbert County

The 4 at #52 tied at $89/point. Tarrant had a horrendous $108/point and a raw score of 116 which means they averaged 58% proficiency on Reading and Math. Ouch.


I found it very interesting that Madison and Madison County were in the top 10 for value while Huntsville is in the bottom 10. Here is the raw data on those three systems:

Key = (Total Expenditure/student, Total Math+Reading Proficiency, Per Point cost)

Huntsville ($13,613, 152, $89/per point)
Madison ($11,189, 179, $62/per point)
Madison County ($11,198, 170, $66 per point)

I have a couple of questions about the base data. I thought that Madison City spent more per student than Madison County did. However, I ran the numbers with the data provided by School Data Direct.

Discuss amongst yourselves....