Future MDA, NASA, and military job loss (Huntsville: loan, transfer)

[friday13]

Originally Posted by A&M Bulldawg

I'm so afraid that Huntsville will start losing population!!!!!!!

I hope for you health sake you don't lose your sleep at night over "OMG Hsv is losing population".

[A&M Bulldawg]

It's not that deep to me! I hate to see citires that are doing good go downhill!

[mimpdaddy]

Originally Posted by A&M Bulldawg

It's not that deep to me! I hate to see citires that are doing good go downhill!

The wheels are turning on a lot of things in this state and defense is not one.
Out with the old and in with the new.Did you think that a city totally dependent on defense to be a great shiny city on the hill.Huntsville didn't blink an eye when Dunlop,Chrysler, and other company's left and people want to get worried now.Cities need a diverse economy and hopefully the leaders in Huntsville can attract new industry instead of depending on the government.Re-elect Loretta Spencer.

[hindsight2020]

Originally Posted by blackkarma

And after your thank our military and veterans, why don't you thank Boeing employees, as well as Lockheed, Northrup, ect for creating the TECHNOLOGY and resources that our military uses every day. Where did you THINK it came from?

Missle defense? Long range and short range? Boeing. Doesn't seem a big waste of money since we've currently got Korea getting ready to fire one at us.

I knew someone would go there. Soap box on. You have hit your head. Defence Industry is the textbook definition of a self-licking ice cream cone. And people think the lobbyist-congress revolving door is bad, they haven't looked at defence hard enough.

We have a saying in the operator world that goes "in the new CHAir Force, mission support is THE MISSION". Contractors are in bed with high leadership in this de facto peacetime air force, and have created an environment of corporatism that fits like a glove with the manufactured demand scheme of big defence industry. Now I'm not saying Boeing is on the level of Lockmart when it comes to these shenanigans, but they are up there with the rest of them. What an individual working for Boeing feels about their contribution to the military has no bearing on the corporate philosophy their firm approaches their business with. Boeing Defence is just as much a self-licking ice cream cone as Lockmart is. There's no inherent selflessness or patriotism, if they could sell that technology to other nations without committing political suicide they'd do it in a second. And from my perspective as an operator who has not benefited from the bloated govt contracts these rent-seekers in huntsville depend on for their livelihood, I spit on the commercials insinuating these companies are the innocent and grateful support structure that you want a previous poster to acknowledge and thank Boeing for. Boeing doesn't care about efficiency, they care about rent-seeking, otherwise they'd be making whatever widget they could get away with setting up a bloated, durable, money-bleeding cost architecture for it, at the taxpayer's expense. For that matter many workers in Huntsville are the quintesential rent-seekers, as they even publicly acknowledge their employment is cycle-dependent. Rent-seeking IS their job description. To argue it is not in these workers vested interest to extend, delay and expand their current contracts as much as legally (forget morally, there's no morality in business) possible is outright disingenous. Which is my beef with the self-rigtheous HSV engineering crowd but I digress. Furthermore, to point at the goverment side of contracting for this lack of oversight would be also factually correct, but in no way shape or form does it exculpate the civilian defense sector. There's a million ways the DOD could cut away at these companies' rent-seeking, and get the job done. I know, because I do "more with less" every day. But DOD always gets their lunch eaten by the civies in every acquisiton and program management scheme out there (Boeing takes advantage of the inherent high turnover of positions in the military leadership structure) and the rest is history.

Does this offend HSV workers? Of course it does, because it directly addresses a labor bloating that very much affects their day to day. I too don't wish people undue ill, but if its socially politically correct nowadays to cheer publicly for the "correction" in the automotive industry and the callous assertion that people should just up and retrain at the expense of another tour of college then I'll publicly cheer for the correction in the aero/defense sector, for they are no less rent-seekers than the alleged union auto worker. The defence sector is not even close to putting on a uniform and standing post, the day they do that will be the day they can be 'thanked' any more than the kid at the flight kitchen, and that kid doesn't get paid 90K, home every night with the Nissan Armada, the soccer mom and the house in the cul-de-sac for his "trouble".

So, no, civilian defense workers are not inherently contributing to the fight, in many instances their rent-seeking negatively affects the military member's ability to fight with both hands. Which is why they should quit putting themselves next to pictures of military members in corny TV commercials and be grateful (as opposed to self-rigtheous) they didn't get a pink slip THIS friday as opposed to the last one, cyclic industry after all, right? .

[blackkarma]

Originally Posted by hindsight2020

I knew someone would go there. Soap box on. You have hit your head. Defence Industry is the textbook definition of a self-licking ice cream cone. And people think the lobbyist-congress revolving door is bad, they haven't looked at defence hard enough.

We have a saying in the operator world that goes "in the new CHAir Force, mission support is THE MISSION". Contractors are in bed with high leadership in this de facto peacetime air force, and have created an environment of corporatism that fits like a glove with the manufactured demand scheme of big defence industry. Now I'm not saying Boeing is on the level of Lockmart when it comes to these shenanigans, but they are up there with the rest of them. What an individual working for Boeing feels about their contribution to the military has no bearing on the corporate philosophy their firm approaches their business with. Boeing Defence is just as much a self-licking ice cream cone as Lockmart is. There's no inherent selflessness or patriotism, if they could sell that technology to other nations without committing political suicide they'd do it in a second. And from my perspective as an operator who has not benefited from the bloated govt contracts these rent-seekers in huntsville depend on for their livelihood, I spit on the commercials insinuating these companies are the innocent and grateful support structure that you want a previous poster to acknowledge and thank Boeing for. Boeing doesn't care about efficiency, they care about rent-seeking, otherwise they'd be making whatever widget they could get away with setting up a bloated, durable, money-bleeding cost architecture for it, at the taxpayer's expense. For that matter many workers in Huntsville are the quintesential rent-seekers, as they even publicly acknowledge their employment is cycle-dependent. Rent-seeking IS their job description. To argue it is not in these workers vested interest to extend, delay and expand their current contracts as much as legally (forget morally, there's no morality in business) possible is outright disingenous. Which is my beef with the self-rigtheous HSV engineering crowd but I digress. Furthermore, to point at the goverment side of contracting for this lack of oversight would be also factually correct, but in no way shape or form does it exculpate the civilian defense sector. There's a million ways the DOD could cut away at these companies' rent-seeking, and get the job done. I know, because I do "more with less" every day. But DOD always gets their lunch eaten by the civies in every acquisiton and program management scheme out there (Boeing takes advantage of the inherent high turnover of positions in the military leadership structure) and the rest is history.

Does this offend HSV workers? Of course it does, because it directly addresses a labor bloating that very much affects their day to day. I too don't wish people undue ill, but if its socially politically correct nowadays to cheer publicly for the "correction" in the automotive industry and the callous assertion that people should just up and retrain at the expense of another tour of college then I'll publicly cheer for the correction in the aero/defense sector, for they are no less rent-seekers than the alleged union auto worker. The defence sector is not even close to putting on a uniform and standing post, the day they do that will be the day they can be 'thanked' any more than the kid at the flight kitchen, and that kid doesn't get paid 90K, home every night with the Nissan Armada, the soccer mom and the house in the cul-de-sac for his "trouble".

So, no, civilian defense workers are not inherently contributing to the fight, in many instances their rent-seeking negatively affects the military member's ability to fight with both hands. Which is why they should quit putting themselves next to pictures of military members in corny TV commercials and be grateful (as opposed to self-rigtheous) they didn't get a pink slip THIS friday as opposed to the last one, cyclic industry after all, right? .

Why don't you get off YOUR soap box..and learn to spell correctly for that matter.

For the record, I am a veteran, active reservist, as well as a government contractor. And your post is not only stupid and offensive, but completely WRONG. As a member of the military, I see both sides and see the benefits that the private sector companies provide the military to make its job more accurate and efficient.

[hindsight2020]

Yours is a conflict of interest. There's no money in "do more with less", which is why you're a government contractor. Of course you'll take offense to my POV, I'm directly addressing the bloated nature of the defense industry, which provides your primary livelihood. I'm not attacking the nature of your service to the country, I'm merely addressing the insinuation that Boeing, Lockmart et al are inherently patriotic, they're not. If I was a govt contractor, I too would probably would like to minimize the bloated nature of that which provides me rent. I recognize life is grey; but you're not ready to acknowledge that said industry is screwed up, because it sustains you. I understand that. From one servicemember to another, I do thank you for pulling your weight in the defense of this country.

[LivingInMadison]

Originally Posted by blackkarma

And after your thank our military and veterans, why don't you thank Boeing employees, as well as Lockheed, Northrup, ect for creating the TECHNOLOGY and resources that our military uses every day. Where did you THINK it came from?

Missle defense? Long range and short range? Boeing. Doesn't seem a big waste of money since we've currently got Korea getting ready to fire one at us.

SBX? Boeing

The Air Force One that flies and protects your precious Messiah? You can thank Boeing for that too.

And that is just a few of Boeing's contributions to this country.

As far as Boeing creating more "important" goods, as you referenced the all important cell phone and refrigerators in another post, that is just plain ignorant and stupid. But then, you apparently did vote for Obama, so that explains alot.

And not to get off post too much, but I DO blame our government because it is THIS administration and Congress that seems set out on a path to destroy this country.

Back.
Thank who? Ha.
Which reminds me...back when I was working for a Baby Bell, my paystub had the following quote: "This check brought to you by our customers". I think, with the list of companies you listed it should read "This check brought to you by our taxpayers."
So I guess I owe nothing to these businesses and they owe the average American taxpayer their undying gratitude (much like those automotive industry guys up north).
I should add, I do not care about long or short range missiles, even after living in NYC through 9-11, I do not fear for my safety. I'll be more fearful if was living in Iraq, or Iran, or one of those Middle Eastern countries in which your daily tasks include "staying alive", "watching for bombs", "steering away from the head-cutters", etc.

To sum it up, like the poster above stated, I do not wish civilians working on these companies to lose their jobs. It sucks to have a family, a mortgage and no job...but, spare me the pseudo-patriotic speech. These companies are "in it" for the green stuff. And I don't blame them, that's what businnesses are for.


PS. BTW, precious Messiah? Dude, there's no God.
PPS. I did not vote for Obama.
PPPS. I thanked my Veteran sister for her service, she rolled her eyes. Oh, and she was in "for the money and benefits".

[DvlsAdvc8]

Originally Posted by blackkarma

Why don't you get off YOUR soap box..and learn to spell correctly for that matter.

For the record, I am a veteran, active reservist, as well as a government contractor. And your post is not only stupid and offensive, but completely WRONG. As a member of the military, I see both sides and see the benefits that the private sector companies provide the military to make its job more accurate and efficient.

A former member of the military, sworn to defend our rights, telling someone to get off their soap box. In one ear out the other?

There is some merit to both sides of this coin, but don't forget that even Eisenhower warned us of the dangers of a persistent, extensive, military industrial complex.

[HB2HSV]

Originally Posted by DvlsAdvc8

There is some merit to both sides of this coin, but don't forget that even Eisenhower warned us of the dangers of a persistent, extensive, military industrial complex.

I'd wish that Eisenhower had warned us of the dangers of a persistent, extensive, financial industrial complex.

This administration, and the previous ones, is being held hostage by our banks & wall street!

[LivingInMadison]

The people still had The Great Depression fresh in their memories...but we forgot, and history tends to repeat itself.