Emergency Heat/heat pump pipes freezing (Valley, York: hotel, houses, purchase)

[harry chickpea]

"As far as letting the pipe drip (I am referring to H2O pipes in the house ), we received a postcard from our home builder telling us to do exactly that, so we'll plan to do so."

Guud wun!!!

An issue with heat pumps is the loss through the ductwork on cold cold nights. I figure that since my aux is heat strips (electric), it is better to use space heaters on the coldest nights and avoid the ductwork loss. Of course, that does not include the fireplace, kerosene lamp, and gas stove burner that also take up the slack.

[HB2HSV]

Originally Posted by Charles

This actually sounds like the least efficient way to go. I think your household system is more efficient unless, like in extreme cases maybe that you only want to heat one room. I may be wrong, but I always thought portable electric heaters weren't too efficient.

Space Heater Efficiency - The Dollar Stretcher by Gary Foreman

Apple & Orange comparison in your link vs. our situation here in huntsville. There will be NO QUESTION if I was to compare a gas fired furnace vs. a space heater, as the question in the link you provided. We're talking about the performance capability & efficiency of heat pump (specifically air-to-air heat pumps).

I've been doing a fare amount of reading on heat pumps, looks like they start to loss their efficiency when outside temperature is below 32~37 deg. F, so heat strip (aux. heat) will start to kick in to supplement the heat -- which is basically one big space heater. As outside temp goes down to ZERO deg. F (like tonight !!), the heat pump will run entirely on heat strip powered -- a GIANT space heater, called emergency heat.

Since we have a big house (over 3,000 sq. ft) and we reall only heat a room or two at night, a space heater is actually more efficient for us for cold nights like this as we don't need to spend the electrical energy (cost & not as efficient) to heat the entire house.

Here're some good links to read about heat pump. The last two are from the City-Data House forum.

Heat Pumps - How Well Do They Work?

Heat Pump having trouble at this cold temp

Heat pump question

[HB2HSV]

Originally Posted by harry chickpea

An issue with heat pumps is the loss through the ductwork on cold cold nights. I figure that since my aux is heat strips (electric), it is better to use space heaters on the coldest nights and avoid the ductwork loss. Of course, that does not include the fireplace, kerosene lamp, and gas stove burner that also take up the slack.

I am still wondering about my decision of NOT putting a real wood fireplace in the house instead of this electrical 'fake' fireplace But the builder wanted an extra $1,000 for a 'real' fireplace, plus my realtor told me a wood fireplace is a mess, yada yada... Now I think having an alternate heat source maybe a good idea in case there's a power outtage in cold nights like this

[nightbird47]

Originally Posted by HB2HSV

I am still wondering about my decision of NOT putting a real wood fireplace in the house instead of this electrical 'fake' fireplace But the builder wanted an extra $1,000 for a 'real' fireplace, plus my realtor told me a wood fireplace is a mess, yada yada... Now I think having an alternate heat source maybe a good idea in case there's a power outtage in cold nights like this

I read all about the ice storm and eight days without power before moving here and did research. I have one of the ventless gas heaters and while it won't make the house perfect it does a good job in the main part. I use a small space heater for the bedroom and sometimes one in the office if its windy with the big out of place window someone thought would be a good idea. The thing that made me insist is that they work without power. I can attest to that as its run when we did lose power.

They won't heat a huge area, but I figure if the power goes I get my lantern, move out the warm comforter and pillows to the couch bed in the living room and shut all the other doors.

[Southlander]

Originally Posted by nightbird47

...if the power goes I get my lantern, move out the warm comforter and pillows to the couch bed in the living room and shut all the other doors.

Just be sure that your bathrooms, laundry room and kitchen have enough heat to keep the pipes from freezing.

[autobahn]

I checked my outdoor faucets last night. I had one in the back yard that I did not have covered due to the dog chewing up the styrofoam cover last year. It was FROZEN. Checked under the house to see where it was frozen. Crawlspace was actually warm (~40 degrees) and verified it was only at the wall. Worked the faucet all the way open and used a hair dryer to thaw it out. Now all are dripping until Saturday. The one in the back with out a cover is now wrapped in a towel.

[marmac]

Seems like folks in Alabama are having more trouble with water pipes freezing and staying warm than we are in Minnesota where it is now -26 at my place.

I planned to move to NE Alabama cuz I hate winter, but I see I might still have problems there .(and maybe more)

Just an honest questions-----------when new houses are built in Alabama, do they take into consideration the lowest temps that might occur in winter?

That was an honest question as I would like to know how low a temp they account for when building.


.

[caution]

Originally Posted by marmac

Seems like folks in Alabama are having more trouble with water pipes freezing and staying warm than we are in Minnesota where it is now -26 at my place.

I planned to move to NE Alabama cuz I hate winter, but I see I might still have problems there .(and maybe more)

Just an honest questions-----------when new houses are built in Alabama, do they take into consideration the lowest temps that might occur in winter?

That was an honest question as I would like to know how low a temp they account for when building.


.

If you look at all-time record lows, that might give you a clue, although I doubt the builders build to that standard. (Our new home is on a slab of concrete with no basement, like many here). It's the sustained periods of very cold weather that really seem to hit the pipes hard, and I think those are rather odd.

Record low temps in HSV

-11 (1985)
-11 (1966)
-9 (1985)
-8 (1958)
-8 (1918)
-7 (x2 in 1940)

I found an NWS site that said it was once -26 in Northern AL. No other recorded temp comes close, but they list it (New Market).

If we had this (or those temps) for a week at a time, yeah it would be nuts. But it'll be back above 32 by Saturday.

Anyway, my power is out since early this AM. Most new homes are all electric. That is scary.

[marmac]

Another question--------if I bought a new house that is all electric, would it be practical to buy a power generator in case power is lost, or is that so seldom it would not be a good use of my money?

thanks in advance.

[harry chickpea]

The frost line in north AL is roughly 8" below the surface, and may not even reach that some years, so builders and homeowners don't take the precautions that people further north do.

After having lived in Vermont and suffering through cold houses there, I told DW that when we moved from Florida to AL, that wherever we lived had to be properly insulated. Last night was an interesting test. Normally, we just close off the bedroom and heat it at night with the space heaters, but since I knew the heat pump was going to be working all night if I didn't make adjustments, and I didn't want to deal with a really cold house this AM, I decided to play.

I haven't figured out the exact math, but the temp inside last night was 70 when we turned the heat pump down to 60. I knew that it would come back on again sometime around 2 AM if we just let it drift down. So, the following heated the house last night, keeping a differential of 50 degrees between inside and outside. In the morning, the temp outside was 8, and the temp inside had stabilized at 63.
I used:
The small fireplace, with a regular refreshing of the logs to a medium load.
An antique kerosene lamp that used maybe 8 oz of kerosene all night.
One burner on the propane gas stove, set at medium.
Two small electric space heaters in the bedroom, set on low and cycling on and off.

The space heated was roughly 1700 sf. The lowest temp on the inside of the exterior walls was about 55, with the walls and ceiling in the den with the fireplace being in the high 70s.

Overall, I was quite satisfied with the experiment. For those of you about to give the warnings: I verified that nothing around the stove burner was getting over 100 degrees, well within safety range. I have a propane leak and CO detector, I have used fireplaces for years and know how to build safe fires, I cleaned out my chimney before the heating season, I keep the electric heaters away from any cloth or paper, and I had the kerosene lamp in a safe place. Most importantly, I have a nose that will wake me up with the slightest sniff of smoke.

This morning, I've cranked the heat pump to build back the differential between 63 and 70, and will likely have it stop cycling in an hour or so.

Oh yeah, we have a generator if needed (with some starting spray), and heaters that attach to the top of propane bbq tanks. I would use the tank top heaters before using the generator for an overnight situation, only cranking up the genny during the day. I cannot recommend anyone have a single source of energy.