What Retail Would You Bring to Huntsville? (Birmingham, Tuscaloosa: leasing, how much)

[A&M Bulldawg]

Current Huntsville Retail
Huntsville Alabama USA - Newcomers &*Visitors - Things to do - Shopping &*Dining
Huntsville Alabama USA - Maps - Major Retail Stores in Huntsville/Madison County

[proudmommy]

Nordstrom's Rack!!! Now that would be cool!

[Southlander]

Originally Posted by KE111691

Also there is going to be an Academy Sports in Decatur, right?

They're doing site prep out there right now.

[33458]

One of these...Carmine's Gourmet Market & La Trattoria Restaurant or something exactly like it.

The best pizza I have ever had...the bread was OUTSTANDING and the sauce absolute perfection...sigh.

http://www.carmines.com/history.aspx

Along with authentic Cuban fare (Little Havana, Don Ramone's), this is a treat that I miss dearly.

[33458]

Originally Posted by KE111691

I was going to say Nordstrom, but I know how you people are; y'all probably would have had a heart attack if I would have said Nordstrom. I agree with some of the previous posts about a Nordstrom coming to Huntsville. I feel that, if Huntsville can get a Dolce and Ketchup, then it can get a Nordstrom considering the fact that alot of people who move here except some form of upscale shopping like Nordstrom and Neiman Marcus.

I don't think a Nordstrom is out of line...it's above my customary allowance, but the sales can be quite reasonable. Back in the 90's they used to mail out a dandy clearance catalog.

My understanding, though, is that Ketchup is not fairing so well?

[DavidH74]

Originally Posted by 33458

I don't think a Nordstrom is out of line...it's above my customary allowance, but the sales can be quite reasonable. Back in the 90's they used to mail out a dandy clearance catalog.

My understanding, though, is that Ketchup is not fairing so well?

True. Neither Dolce nor Ketchup are fairing well, and are here because of a Huntsville connection. It's FAR different from a Nordstrom coming -- a company that has a strict set of "prerequisites" before it enters a market (just as many national, established retailers and restaurants have). Nordstrom has said time and time again that there is not a large enough population here to support a store. Their REQUIREMENTS to enter a market is in the neighborhood of a million people. Huntsville has a third of what is needed.

What we COULD attract is Von Maur, which would serve Huntsville VERY well, is widely compared to Nordstrom, but enters smaller markets. It would satisfy our need for upscale retail. It carries many of the lines we do not have access to. I hope Bridge Street can attract it. It is going to be part of another O&S development elsewhere. I've written and they are aware of Huntsville. Bridge Street needs anchors, in my opinion. I'm NOT a fan of Macy's, but at least it would help attract the masses. Bridge Street is too specialized right now, and I don't see many of the stores fairing too well (as well as the Dolce Group restaurants). However, I would love a Von Maur anchor -- FAR and AWAY more upscale than middle-of-the-road Macys (not even upscale in large markets really -- considering our Parkway Place Belk carries anything ANY Macys does) or our "better" Belk or former Parkway Place Parisian. Von Maur is very comparable to Nordstrom in selection and service and atmoshphere. And, it is looking to expand. And, it is a company willing to enter a smaller market.
Right now, Bridge Street seems to attract people who want to go to PF Changs or Monaco. There are other exceptions for sure, but, the bottom line is, I don't see many shopping. I think having anchors would help some.
And, not to get off-topic, but I will go ahead and voice my hatred for CBL again. I wish, instead of yearning for new developments, the developments we have would be as...well, developed...as possible. I won't even address Madison Square, but Parkway Place has a potential that it is not living up to. There are so many inappropriate infill stores there -- camo store, Asian import store, wig shop, knife shop...so many mundane stores, so many vacancies that have never been leased since the mall was redeveloped. The mall is designed for another wing and anchor. There are lots of names Huntsville CAN attract, realistically, that it can support. I think we should hope for a more fully developed/functional/integrated Parkway Place that offers more new-to-the-market stores and restaurants, more upscale, etc over a new development. There aren't THAT many stores to go around (that HSV can support) to go into new development. They need to go into Bridge Street and Parkway Place, where the open/inappropriately leased space (amount of space) makes sense. (trying to say there is so not enough upscale retailers to go around to fill up a new million-sq ft development...in HSV, especially, but there areenough retailers to go around that WE can attract to go into the open space and shamefully-leased or inappropriately-leased (either, be it too specialized/high-end for our market or too low-brow,mundane for our market) or potential growth opportunities of the developments we already have) Those centers should be all they can be...first. We are going to lose the quality retailers we DO have if this is not going to be the case. And, that WILL BE bad. It will be a long time before they consider HSV again if they leave. We need to make sure the developments we DO already have, have all the staying-power possible. The LAST thing we need are more huge developments that do not meet their potential and just take away from what we already have. It's the last thing. Coach, Aldo, California Pizza Kitchen, Z Gallerie, Brooks Brothers...these are stores we CAN get. Von Maur -- can get. Let's hope for these and not Tiffany or Armani or Gucci or Diesel or Nordstrom or Neiman because, folks, those are so not coming. But, we CAN do better than a wig shop, camo shop, knife store, Asian import store. The centers we have need a better hold on our market and smarter leasing. And WE need to be careful of what we wish for. I really do believe new development is only going to hurt us. I really do. It's going to make every center we have with many open leases and not enough concentrated shopping and no one place being big enough a draw, and retailers and restaurants who already are hurting nationally, much less in a smaller market where they put smaller stores with less selection...are really going to hurt (despite Huntsville's relative protection from greater economic problems) And the better offerings we have are going to leave. We need to support what we have and DEMAND that what we do have is all it can be!!!!

[A&M Bulldawg]

I agree with you! I am a big fan of growth! You put it in a whole different term that Huntsville needs to fill in what they have instead of landing all of this big shopping centers that have stores that Huntsville already has, while closing down stores in present places and trying to move to the new places. I actually hate those wig stores and those "amateur" stores. Everytime I see stores of this description, I get mad because those spaces could have been a store that Huntsville really needs. With all of these shopping center being proposed, there needs to be a bigger selection of stores and newer stores new to the market. For instance, the shopping centers along the I-565 corridor-Bridge Street, The Peaks at Southchase, Waterstone, and Sweetwater-need to have different stores! Bridge Street is upscale and has higher-end stores. The Peaks at Southchase sounds like it may be upscale, but if it is upscale, it needs to have different stores then Bridgestreet; it needs upscale stores that are new to the Huntsville market and can be supported here; maybe, a Nordstrom, a Lord & Taylor, a Van Maur, or a Macy's can anchor this shopping center or maybe, Bridge Street. This shopping center may be on Bridge Street level. Waterstone may be your average shopping center with a touch of upscale. This shopping center can land a Coach, an Aldo, a California Pizza Kitchen, a Gallerie, a Saks, and a Brooks Brothers. This shopping center may be similar to Midtown Village in Tuscaloosa. Sweetwater may be a large shopping center that you would see in the suburbs. It would be a little fun because of the Bass Pro Shops. Because there is an outlet center in the plan, there needs to be "outlet" center stores. This outlet center needs to be similar to a premium outlet and/or a tanger outlet......Basically all of these new shopping centers need to have something that Huntsville doesn't have and can support. Because there are lots of people moving here from California and the DC area, then there needs to be stores that people from these places like to shop at, and places that won't fell in Huntsville.

[DavidH74]

Originally Posted by KE111691

I agree with you! I am a big fan of growth! You put it in a whole different term that Huntsville needs to fill in what they have instead of landing all of this big shopping centers that have stores that Huntsville already has, while closing down stores in present places and trying to move to the new places. I actually hate those wig stores and those "amateur" stores. Everytime I see stores of this description, I get mad because those spaces could have been a store that Huntsville really needs. With all of these shopping center being proposed, there needs to be a bigger selection of stores and newer stores new to the market. For instance, the shopping centers along the I-565 corridor-Bridge Street, The Peaks at Southchase, Waterstone, and Sweetwater-need to have different stores! Bridge Street is upscale and has higher-end stores. The Peaks at Southchase sounds like it may be upscale, but if it is upscale, it needs to have different stores then Bridgestreet; it needs upscale stores that are new to the Huntsville market and can be supported here; maybe, a Nordstrom, a Lord & Taylor, a Van Maur, or a Macy's can anchor this shopping center or maybe, Bridge Street. This shopping center may be on Bridge Street level. Waterstone may be your average shopping center with a touch of upscale. This shopping center can land a Coach, an Aldo, a California Pizza Kitchen, a Gallerie, a Saks, and a Brooks Brothers. This shopping center may be similar to Midtown Village in Tuscaloosa. Sweetwater may be a large shopping center that you would see in the suburbs. It would be a little fun because of the Bass Pro Shops. Because there is an outlet center in the plan, there needs to be "outlet" center stores. This outlet center needs to be similar to a premium outlet and/or a tanger outlet......Basically all of these new shopping centers need to have something that Huntsville doesn't have and can support. Because there are lots of people moving here from California and the DC area, then there needs to be stores that people from these places like to shop at, and places that won't fell in Huntsville.

Nordstrom is not coming at this point in time! We do not meet their needs at this point in time! MAYBE when all large markets have two and three stores, and Nashville and Birmingham and Louisville and all mid-sized markets have one, MAYBE they will reevaluate their prerequisite requirements. Nordstrom is not coming anytime soon though. Ten years from now - maybe. It will not be part of any new development right now though! Lord & Taylor is all but going out of business and only sticking to its current territory in the Northeast and so not expanding. It pulled out of the South and Midwest. It's so not a company in growth mode. The ONLY thing I can think of, who has DAID they have interest in us, is Von Maur!These places are not coming. Evidently, my point was not made. THERE IS NOT ENOUGH UPSCALE RETAIL TO GO AROUND...OR JUST NEW-TO-MARKET RETAIL THAT HUNTSVILLE CAN SUPPORT OR THAT IS EXPANDING! Just because a development bills itself as upscale, does not mean it will be upscale. Just because a development is announced means it will get built. People's perceptions of Huntsville are SOOO off -- either we are totally useless and have nothing to offer, or the other group that thinks we are going to get true high-end, luxury, retail because we have Ketchup or just because we have high-paying jobs or just because if you count everything from Gadsden to Cullman, we might have enough people to put us on the radar. What?!?!??!??!?!?! Saks is not coming! Saks is all but out of business and not expanding. Have you been to the Saks at the Summit? It's there only because Saks is headquartered there. It has been announced BY SAKS as being one of the three worst performers in the chain. You can go in and tell. In addition to that, Saks is preparing to cut out their smaller "market" (not full line) stores. We are not getting Saks. We are not getting Neiman Marcus. We are not getting Barneys. Come on!!! retailers, in this day and age, like to stick together! (be grouped together) All these "water" developments are not going to happen or are, surely, not going to be upscale. Just because they say they are does not mean they have any sense either! WE HAVE TWO CENTERS THAT ARE UPSCALE,, NOT HIGH-END, BUT UPSCALE, THAT CAN AND SHOULD ATTRACT MORE NEW-TO-THE-MARKET STORES. One has MANY vacancies. One is not fuilly-built out. One has inappropriate infill stores. And, look, before I get jumped on for not supporting local (wig shop, camo shop, oriental rug store, Asian import store, knife store), I TOTALLY SUPPORT LOCAL. But, it doesn't belong at the mall! Not our "good" mall!

Moving away from any conversation about high-end (we'll never get high-end luxury) and upscale (not enough to go around to fill a new development ANYWHERE, much less in a market like Huntsville), where are the better stores even going to come from that we don't have? What we don't have will fit in nicely at PP or BS. I have noooooo idea what anyone things can fill a whole new development. I'm telling you it's going to hurt HSV in the SHORT and LONG-TERM. We need to support what we have. We need to make sure the retailers we do have stick around and stick together. We need to make sure the developments we do have are living up to their potential. Louis Vuitton is NOT coming! Tiffany is not coming! No luxury dpt store is coming!
I use a pretty common-sense "two rule". If Nashville or B'ham have TWO of something we don't have, we can probably get whatever that is. If Nashville AND Brimingham EACH have one of something, it might be feasible for us to one day get. There WILL be exceptions. We will (and have) lured things before either of them have. And, there will be things those mid-sized markets will each get one of, that we'll never be able to get. So, the best rule of thumb is if either of those markets has TWO of anything, we probably deserve and can handle whatever that restaurant/store may be.

Now, you name for me 80 NEW-to-the-market stores (that marry with common sense) and then I'll believe we can support another new development. And, oh, let's keep ih mind that the most Parkway Place can attract is a wig shop, a camo shop, a knife shop, an Oriental rug store (in highly visible space), and an Asian import store.

Why are people's perceptions of Huntsville SO SCREWY!?!?!?! I understand our greatness, but it's relative, folks, and it only gets us so much. Do you konw how many people it takes to support a high-end store? I don't care how many well-paid jobs we have. WE CAN'T! I stand by that I don't think we are supporting upscale very well or well enough to sustain it.

Growth is not good if it's not done smart and if it's not sustainable. I wish Bayer had put one of their Summit concepts where Bridge Street is. The leasing would have been better and more appropriate for our market. i wish anyone other than CBL had their hands on Parkway Place.

WHY are people so screwy about what Huntsville can support???

My point was so not made. You so do not agree with me or get my point.

[33458]

[Q]True. Neither Dolce nor Ketchup are fairing well, and are here because of a Huntsville connection. It's FAR different from a Nordstrom coming -- a company that has a strict set of "prerequisites" before it enters a market (just as many national, established retailers and restaurants have). Nordstrom has said time and time again that there is not a large enough population here to support a store. Their REQUIREMENTS to enter a market is in the neighborhood of a million people. Huntsville has a third of what is needed.[/Q]

I'm wondering if that's why Chipotle keeps saying, "Not yet, we'll think about it..." despite my pleas via email.

Macy's is in trouble, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Q]And, not to get off-topic, but I will go ahead and voice my hatred for CBL again. I wish, instead of yearning for new developments, the developments we have would be as...well, developed...as possible. ...are really going to hurt (despite Huntsville's relative protection from greater economic problems) And the better offerings we have are going to leave. We need to support what we have and DEMAND that what we do have is all it can be!!!![/Q]

'Perfect sense. While there is a target for the knife store/camo shop/etc, it seems misplaced if in mall trying to present itself as higher-end...back in FL those businesses were typically found in strip malls or farmer's markets if not freestanding buildings. Now - blending the variety, if done well, could work...but too easily too many generic 'fillers' can diminish the appeal.

I have to laugh - my husband was thrilled to see a knife store (weapons, firearms...something had him giddy...though the selection was somewhat tired) inside a large shopping mall (let's just address him as Mr. Tad Gear)...that sort of thing was UNHEARD of where we moved from. Those stores were tucked away...the bastard child of retail market.

[David1502]

Originally Posted by DavidH74

Nordstrom is not coming at this point in time! We do not meet their needs at this point in time! MAYBE when all large markets have two and three stores, and Nashville and Birmingham and Louisville and all mid-sized markets have one, MAYBE they will reevaluate their prerequisite requirements. Nordstrom is not coming anytime soon though. Ten years from now - maybe. It will not be part of any new development right now though!

I agree with your point and I think many in the Huntsville area are unrealistic about what can and cannot be supported by the local market. The HSV Metro area needs to grow significantly to support a Nordstrom. However, as a Nordstrom cardholder who has visited their stores throughout the U.S., I have found their merchandise carried varies quite a bit as some markets can support more higher end merchandise than others. (For example, in Atlanta, the Perimeter Mall store carries higher grade merchandise and a greater depth of choices than the Mall of Georgia store). So, it is possible a lower grade store could locate here some day (after BHM and Nashville have at least two stores as you say), but it won't be carrying $1,000 St. Johns Knit suits in the Ladies Dept.
However, the Parkway Place Belk store's Men's Dept. carries a good portion of what Nordstrom carries but Nordstrom carries $150+ casual designer shirts which will never sell here.
Your point about supporting the existing higher end shopping centers is "spot on." When Parkway Place has never leased much of its space and is now leasing to cheap wig and knive stores which should be located elsewhere, there is not demand to support another high end center. What can be added, however, is a Macy's (perhaps, two), Brooks Brothers, Z Gallery, etc.

Also, if VonMaur is able to make it in Moline, Illinois, they can certainly make it in the Huntsville area.
FYI: Several years ago, there was an article in the WSJ stating that Saks Fifth Avenue found that many women from the Birmingham area continued ot shop at the Phipps Plaza store in ATL instead of the Summit store becasue the Summit store didn't carry a lot of the high end labels they liked. As a result they upgraded the lines at the Summit.