Job fair a farce (insurance, credit report, hotel)

[daac09]

HB2HSV - I'm curious what your response would have been if Marylee's friend were in business instead of engineering. Any advice for those looking for business (or other non-engineering) jobs?

I recently saw a post on this forum that said Huntsville's economy isn't so great for non-engineers and am just curious about how good or bad it seems to you.

[HB2HSV]

Originally Posted by daac09

HB2HSV - I'm curious what your response would have been if Marylee's friend were in business instead of engineering. Any advice for those looking for business (or other non-engineering) jobs?

I recently saw a post on this forum that said Huntsville's economy isn't so great for non-engineers and am just curious about how good or bad it seems to you.

Daac, I agree there're probably not as many 'business' jobs as there are in engineering for the local market. On the same job wesite, if I put in keyword "business", I only get 80+ openings, if that gives you a feel of what's out there. But I also know that all these space/defense contractors/ gov't agencies need business staff in order to operate as a "business". So there are still many openings available to support various projects/ programs each company runs.

It is also difficult to quantify how many job openings under "business", as the term "business" covers many discipliines. There are contracts/ subcontracts adminstration, accounting/ finance, cost/ estimating, purchasing/ sales, HR, and general office adminstrations, etc. Then there are 'engineers' effectively doing 'business' functions, such as program managmenet, business development (customer smooching), project engineering, etc.

The big demand of "business" people in space/defense sector, as I see, are in cost/estimating, accounting/finance & contract/sub-contract (buyer) adminstration area. Just to give you an idea, the Boeing company (including the commercial aircraft business) outsource 85% of its business to vendors as "subcontracts". It goes to the marketplace to raise capital (cash) to finance operations inbetween various contract payments. They compile weekly cost (expenditure) data on all projects and are required to provide monthly cost (earned value) reporting on most government contracts. All these will required business staff to support.

Needless to say, it will be helpful if you have experience in these areas within the same industry, so you'll understand lingos & why we do things the way we do. Sometime you may need security clearance as well. I would not worry as much on what specific computer softwares, e.g., accounting, you know as each company may use it's own preferred vendor softwares. As minimum, it will be a good idea to know how to work the MS Excel spreadsheet and uses MS Power Point program, even engineers will need to know how to use those.

[daac09]

Thanks HB - that helps me a lot. I'm feeling a little guilty because we're relocating to Huntsville for a FANTASTIC opportunity for me, but my husband is still looking for a job there. He's an MBA with experience in manufacturing / supply chain management as well as great computer skills, and he's getting a little discouraged. I think we have to be patient and he'll find something good, but all of the gloom and doom news about the economy makes it harder to be hopeful.

It's good to know that there are jobs out there.

[marylee54]

Ok, all "engineering" jobs aren't the same. I helped her search the employers who came to the job fair, seems all the current openings want someone from the inside, not a new employee. Their job openings read like a job description, want exact experience with that company doing their systems, say things like "5-10 years exp with xyz copr doing xyz's abc system"....well, why bother opening it up to the public when its obvious they only want to hire from within?

Seems like every job she applied for was similar, she went a long way at her expense for jobs they couldn't fill with an "outsider" anyways. That's why I called it a farce. Just some ploy to be able to say they'd cast the net wide.

[rnc76]

Originally Posted by marylee54

Ok, all "engineering" jobs aren't the same. I helped her search the employers who came to the job fair, seems all the current openings want someone from the inside, not a new employee. Their job openings read like a job description, want exact experience with that company doing their systems, say things like "5-10 years exp with xyz copr doing xyz's abc system"....well, why bother opening it up to the public when its obvious they only want to hire from within?

Seems like every job she applied for was similar, she went a long way at her expense for jobs they couldn't fill with an "outsider" anyways. That's why I called it a farce. Just some ploy to be able to say they'd cast the net wide.

They aren't just trying to hire from within. They are also trying to steal good employees from competitors working on the same or similar programs. I hear what you are saying about the job descriptions. When I was looking for a job here 4 years ago, it was the same way. Many postings, particularly from the big boys (Lockheed, Northrop, Boeing...) were ridiculously specific, often filled with acronyms only known to those already working within that program...

[HB2HSV]

Marylee,

If you'd like, DM me some keywords on jobs that your friend is looking for. I'll see if I can get some matches and DM you back with those.

[HB2HSV]

Originally Posted by rnc76

They aren't just trying to hire from within. They are also trying to steal good employees from competitors working on the same or similar programs. I hear what you are saying about the job descriptions. When I was looking for a job here 4 years ago, it was the same way. Many postings, particularly from the big boys (Lockheed, Northrop, Boeing...) were ridiculously specific, often filled with acronyms only known to those already working within that program...

... and those 'insider' potential employees are the ones that can demand the highest salaries these companies are willing to pay.

It works like this in EVERY industry. These people already have the latest knowledge, trainings, necessary clearances, and can jump in to be productive immediately. In some cases, the hiring companies need them more so than they need the hiring companies. The customers may know these employees on individual basis, and they bring the previous program history (what happened, how we fixed similar problems prior, etc.) with them. They bring credibility to the new hiring company.

As to the rest of potential employees, go stand in back of the line. It works this way even if you are an expert in one field but was forced to change jobs/ industry to another field where you're an unknown. It's time to prove yourself all over again.

That's why they call it the job "market". There's no democracy as to who should get hired and should get what pay. It is all on a "comensurate with experience" basis.

[marylee54]

Originally Posted by HB2HSV

Marylee,

If you'd like, DM me some keywords on jobs that your friend is looking for. I'll see if I can get some matches and DM you back with those.

Are you a head Hunter?

[HB2HSV]

Originally Posted by marylee54

Are you a head Hunter?

No I am not. But do you really care if I am one?

[tedanderson]

they will try to promote a current employee then fill their job...what is wrong with that? There is nothing wrong with promoting from within, if you have a good employee you want to keep. I think it is a stretch to call the fair a "farce" because of this....many of these companies want and need "specialized" experience.

There is really nothing wrong with hiring/promoting from within, however, I can understand where the OP is coming from. If you go to a job fair that is heavily promoted and advertised, it is not unreasonable to expect some sort interaction beyond the "Don't call us. We'll call you." cliché from every single employer. And I can understand how discouraging this can be because even if you are not qualified for any position offered there, everyone wants an opportunity to sell themselves.

Not that they ought to have a right nor should it be manditory to guarantee an interview to anyone that goes there but when they aren't taking applications or resumes, it can make people ask themselves "Why bother?"