Light Rail System in Huntsville? (daycare, buying, bankrupt)

[jetgraphics]

Originally Posted by skinem

As far as a light rail system, can anyone name a municipal system any where in the nation that ridership has met expectations or is breaking even, much less making money?

I think the operative word is "municipal" (government controlled).

America once built 500 electric streetcar systems in less than 20 years (1890 - 1910). Streetcar / Trolley tracks reached 34,404 miles by 1907. The interurban electric railways for the entire country totaled approximately 18,000 miles by 1917. Most cities and towns of 25,000 or more got a non-oil transportation system. The U.S.A. did this with a population of less than one-third of today's, approximately 3% of today's GNP, and relatively primitive technology. And the majority of the systems were PRIVATELY OWNED.

Until cheap oil and skullduggery (and oppressive taxation) drove the electric rail mass transit into decline, someone was making enough profit to build and operate these lines.

Americans have to change from an oil based transportation system to "something else". We don't have much choice, do we?

In 2007 consumption rates
1 million barrels of oil = one hour U.S. consumption
1 billion barrels of oil = one month U.S. consumption
1 trillion barrels of oil = one human lifetime ...

In one year, 12 billion barrels of oil are consumed. 70% of that is imported: 8.4 billion.
At $50 / barrel, we export $420 Billion / year.
At $75 / barrel, we export $630 Billion / year.
At $100 / barrel, we export $840 Billion / year.
At $125 / barrel, we export $1050 Billion / year.

It would make more sense to spend all that $$$ in the USA, building electric rail transit.


http://www.city-data.com/forum/8902353-post1.html

[macwell]

I came across the article below by accident while reading another artilce.
I listed the highlighted areas concerning transportaion. I had not heard
of the 'Intermodal Center' at Research Park. I was not sure if this
was related or not, but thought it was interesting concerning the rail
project discussion.

thx


Shelby Announces Transportation Funding for North Alabama
July 9, 2008
Washington, D.C. -
.: United States Senator Richard Shelby :: Press Room :.=

Cummings Research Park Intermodal Center - $1.372 Million
These funds will be used to construct an Intermodal facility in
Cummings Research Park.


University of Alabama in Huntsville Intermodal Facility - $1.646 Million
UAH will use this funding to construct an Intermodal facility on campus.

U.S. Space and Rocket Center Tramway Extension - $274,000
The Space and Rocket Center will use this funding to extend the tramway at
the Center in Huntsville.

Moderator cut: copyright edit

[jetgraphics]

Oil reserves in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Proven oil reserves in the United States are 21 billion barrels (3.3×10^9 m3), excluding the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. The U.S. Department of the Interior estimates the total volume of undiscovered, technically recoverable prospective resources in all areas of the United States, including the Federal Outer Continental Shelf, the 1002 area of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, the National Petroleum Reserve–Alaska, and the Bakken Formation, total 134 billion barrels (21.3×10^9 m3) of crude oil. This excludes oil shale reserves, as there is no significant commercial production of oil from oil shale in the United States.

1 billion barrels of oil = one month U.S. consumption (2007)
TOTAL OIL RESERVES = 134 months (11 years)

It's going to get worse and worse, folks. To make our domestic supply last till 2100, we'd have to cut our consumption by 90%... or import 90% ($$$$$$$$$).
OUCH.

[TCnbham]

I personally feel like it could work. It would take a while for people to get on board with the idea but it could catch. The problem with Huntsville in its present is that you have people who prefer Huntsville small town feel vs those who have a growing desire to see Huntsville become the next "come to city of the south" I personally would like to see Huntsville grow and I think that a light rail system would actually be a signature to the growth and direction that Huntsville is going in. A few weeks ago I was in ATL and me and a friend decided to take the train to midtown to go to Lenox just to something different, it was really nice and convient ....Huntsville lite rail would be the way to go!!!!!

[flstatenolefan]

I use to work for FL DOT, and I think I can say that if it won't work in FL, it certainly won't work in Huntsville. FL DOT has been pushing light rail in the major cities for years, and there is no takers.

[DvlsAdvc8]

I doubt its time to build rail, but I definitely want the land being picked up over the most likely/necessary routes.

I hate how systems in other cities compromise with existing development so much. Huntsville is small enough at this point that there is not much in the way. Once the city is large enough to properly utilize a rail system, the land would already be in hand - gotten for relatively cheap.

The metro was one of my fav things about living in DC... but there's probably just not enough TO Huntsville just yet. Of course, kick gas prices way way up and maybe people start rethinking primary transportation.

[jetgraphics]

Originally Posted by DvlsAdvc8

I doubt its time to build rail, but I definitely want the land being picked up over the most likely/necessary routes.
... Of course, kick gas prices way way up and maybe people start rethinking primary transportation.

OH OH OH, it's way past doubting.

Oil reserves in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Proven oil reserves in the United States are 21 billion barrels (3.3×10^9 m3), excluding the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. The U.S. Department of the Interior estimates the total volume of undiscovered, technically recoverable prospective resources in all areas of the United States, including the Federal Outer Continental Shelf, the 1002 area of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, the National Petroleum Reserve–Alaska, and the Bakken Formation, total 134 billion barrels (21.3×10^9 m3) of crude oil. This excludes oil shale reserves, as there is no significant commercial production of oil from oil shale in the United States.

1 billion barrels of oil = one month U.S. consumption (2007 - last year of "booming" economy)
TOTAL OIL RESERVES = 134 months (11 years)

Oil reserves in Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Proven oil reserves in Saudi Arabia are the largest in the world, estimated to be 267 billion barrels (42×10^9 m3) including 2.5 billion barrels in the Saudi-Kuwaiti neutral zone. This is around one-fifth of the world's total conventional oil reserves.

1 billion barrels of oil = one month U.S. consumption (2007)

Ergo, if the U.S. bought ALL of that reserve, it would last 267 months (22 years).
2 years to exhaust U.S. reserves, if we do nothing.
11 years to exhaust U.S. domestic supply, by drilling everything.
22 years to exhaust Saudi supply.


Options:

• do nothing, collapse in 5 years.
• drill, baby drill, collapse in 11 years.
• convert to higher efficiency 6 stroke engines, collapse in 11 years.
• convert to hybrids, collapse in 9 years.
• fight over dwindling oil supplies, collapse.
• tax fossil fuels, attempt to transition to solar, collapse.
• transition to coal economy, poison everything, run out in 50 years, collapse.
• build rails, switch to electric trains, tax fossil fuels, go "Green", still not enough power, collapse.
• build ring villages, go renewable, fight over the scraps, and collapse.

D'Oh... Expletive Deleted!

[hsv-crew]

Originally Posted by jetgraphics

Options:

• do nothing, collapse in 5 years.
• drill, baby drill, collapse in 11 years.
• convert to higher efficiency 6 stroke engines, collapse in 11 years.
• convert to hybrids, collapse in 9 years.
• fight over dwindling oil supplies, collapse.
• tax fossil fuels, attempt to transition to solar, collapse.
• transition to coal economy, poison everything, run out in 50 years, collapse.
• build rails, switch to electric trains, tax fossil fuels, go "Green", still not enough power, collapse.
• build ring villages, go renewable, fight over the scraps, and collapse.

D'Oh... Expletive Deleted!

You forgot one option:

Invent portable fusion device (Mr. Fusion) turning garbage into energy at the rate of E=mC^2, --> Utopia!

[mm42]

Collapse? How does the dwindling US oil production equate to collapse?

The world Hubbert peak is approaching, so that will lead to growing oil prices, but there is no "collapse" in the near future related to oil production.

[DvlsAdvc8]

Originally Posted by jetgraphics

OH OH OH, it's way past doubting.

Forgive me for remaining a doubter. Light rail in Huntsville solves this how? You're going to build me a light rail line to every nook and corner that I need to go? No? Then relax on the repeated doomsday oil scenario that assumes no alternative energy vehicles will be developed in the next 30 years.

See, there's this funny thing that happens when prices go up (in this case oil) - people look for cheaper alternatives and commercial enterprise attempts to meet that demand. What's beyond doubting is the massive incentive to produce high capacity batteries for all electric cars, or fuel cell vehicles... however, until "cheap oil" no longer exists, you won't see anyone spend to replace the massive oil infrastructure.

When its all summed up, light rail isn't as much about energy as it is about traffic.