Light Rail System in Huntsville? (Madison, York: 2009, rent, how much)

[A&M Bulldawg]

Could light rail line boost city, arsenal?


Monday, May 18, 2009 By KENNETH KESNER
Times Staff Writer kenneth.kesner@htimes.com

Park-and-ride facility seen as precursor to public transit system
Doug Gooch says he always gets the same reaction when he talks about plans for a light train running from Bridge Street and Cummings Research Park onto Redstone Arsenal: "It makes too much sense, it'll never happen."
Gooch is an experienced developer, not only a dreamer. He thinks the time is right for a light rail line to deal with the rapid, BRAC-related growth at the arsenal and in Huntsville, and serve as a catalyst for developing a true communitywide public transportation system over a couple of decades.

Could light rail line boost city, arsenal? - al.com

[Charles]

Where are the funds coming from?
How much extra time will it take to get to work for an average commuter?
How much gas will it save the average commuter?
How much will it cost each commuter on a daily basis?



How will Arsenal employees drive around the base to perform their "mission critical" duties?



How will Arsenal employees drive out to their mid day feedings?

[skinem]

Makes sooo much sense. Especially for a town that doesn't even have a good bus system...and wouldn't use it if it did.

[caution]

I think it would be best to do the least expensive upgrades first.

- passenger drop-off lanes/park-n-carpool lots at various strategic locations
- park-n-ride the bus lots (can use same lot as carpool/slug lots)
- sidewalks and pedestrian crossings
- more bike lanes

Of course, those aren't sexy and expensive....

[harry chickpea]

"Doug Gooch says he always gets the same reaction when he talks about plans for a light train running from Bridge Street and Cummings Research Park onto Redstone Arsenal: "It makes too much sense, it'll never happen.""


Oh, really? Which two people did he talk to this about that he got that reaction consistently? What a fruitcake idea (and I love trolleys and trains, so I'm not against them per se). There are very few situations where light rail actually makes good sense. In most cases busses are a more flexible and less costly alternative. Construction of light rail trackage (without the incidental land costs and eminent domain proceedings) is in the order of millions of dollars per mile. If things change or it doesn't work out, that money is lost.

Even in south Miami, where traffic is horrendous and growth amazing, the old FEC railway line was ripped up, and a dedicated busway (no cars allowed) put in instead.

[HB2HSV]

Buses are more likely used than a light rail system. There're not enough traffic to justify a rail system. Sounds like another WPA ... urrr... "economic stimulus" boondoggle to me....

[terrence81]

I don't know seems like Huntsville is a little small for a train system. Now a bus that has its own right of way lane would be good but even that sounds too expensive to be justified. Y'all live there so of course know more than me but I'm thinking just based on the area population that Huntsville is too small. Maybe one of those cute little trolleys? But yeah more buses before going for light rail.

[DvlsAdvc8]

I think much of the argument against light rail is lacking 4th dimensional thinking. Right now, light rail is probably unecessary. In 20 years, will we say the same? By the time you need a rail network, costs are even more prohibitive and any growth the rail itself might have driven is lost. Instead of comprehensive planning around rail stops, you have rail stops that have to be wedged into existing development. The Tyson's Corner area of virginia is a great example. Years ago, the original plan was to extend the metro through Tysons underground. For cost reasons, the plan was put on hold (despite EVERYONE agreeing it HAD to come to pass eventually - due to explosive growth). Last year, it was decided that the metro through Tyson's would now be elevated due to the costs of tunneling... but get this, continued development during the delay had caused the cost of an elevated rail to equal what it would have cost to build underground rail years earlier. Had they just gone ahead, they would have had the underground rail they wanted, in time for when it was needed (it is needed now) for the same cost as the inferior plan they fell back on years later. FORESIGHT is KEY!

As for buses, just about anyone from the DC area will tell you they prefer the metro to the metro bus. The buses are notoriously unreliable and must deal with traffic themselves! No matter where you go, traffic doesn't go away... it reaches an equilibrium with public transportation. Most cities have shown that express buses simply end up stuck in traffic.

The argument that Huntsville doesn't have the mentality/preference for public transit is also flawed. The mentality is formed by experience not out of thin air. Efficient public transit creates it. VA even evolved what are called "slug lines" after highly restrictive HOV(4) lanes were put into place - particularly along the I95 corridor. Eventually, commuters driving alone but wanting to drive HOV would pick up commuters at varous park and rides... even going so far as to post signs indicating where they were commuting to. This is an extreme example, but if something has an efficiency advantage, people will adopt it.

A well designed system is a hybrid system that makes best use of each option. In other cities, express buses have proven to be little more effective than driving, while local bus routes have shown to have the sort of flexibility and low cost you need at that level. Light rail comes at great cost but can skirt traffic and is very fast with a limited number of stops.

The key is to have a fully integrated regional system, with commuter rail from distant areas meeting up with a light rail city backbone whose stations are served by local bus routes. Those areas that don't meet certain commuter volume criteria for light rail can still be served by express bus until one day, perhaps a LR line is added.

IMO, the earlier light rail is implemented the better - it only costs more later.

[HB2HSV]

Originally Posted by DvlsAdvc8

I think much of the argument against light rail is lacking 4th dimensional thinking. Right now, light rail is probably unecessary. In 20 years, will we say the same?

Listen, this type of forward proactive thinking has no place in public policy decision-making !!!

In 20 years, maybe they'll finally decide to widen some of the streets around here.

Seriously you must remember that (and please repeat after me) Huntsville is NOT Washington D.C., or Los Angeles, or Chicago, or New York City, or even Atlanta ....

Personally I'd like the trolley car idea going from downtown to top of Monte Sano. Now that will be a great tourism idea !!

[friday13]

Originally Posted by HB2HSV

Personally I'd like the trolley car idea going from downtown to top of Monte Sano. Now that will be a great tourism idea !!

I second that, then I could rent out my Oakpark (ChapmanEl.) home by the day to the tourists visiting the area. Yeah, sweet, when will this happen? See, right now I'm in a bind: to move or not to move to Madison.