Interesting Discovery re: C&R (Birmingham, Huntsville: sales, 2009, home sales)

[ionlife]

Originally Posted by DvlsAdvc8

Drama, that's not my point. I don't think you're slow for having difficulty finding the C&R. It very well may not have been easy. I too believe it should be easy.

My point is that if you want a seller to offer up something without hassle, one must demand it as a condition of buying. If my developer had made it difficult to obtain any of kind of information important to me in my decision making process - I wouldn't have bought from him. How quickly do you think he'd change his mind about providing the information?

Here's the deal: we had no problem finding the C&R on line on the developer's website. We read through them. We believed, via the C&R posted that were accessible and easy to find, that we had a good situation.

We did not.

Because unbeknownst to us, another set of bylaws was being created and posted in the courthouse... then they were posted on the website after we purchased. So... we were baited and swtiched.

Truthfully, we might have questioned the C&R at closing had we been apprised of the other options, but I believe they would have focused on the section stating the developer would surrender rights in writing and we would have, based on our experience, not questioned that response.

A trust was broken.

I want to make sure no one else's trust is broken.

If we were a unique case, then sad too bad. But we are on of 225 homeowners in ONE sub that is much like many of the subs in AL, particularly here in this county. So I believe before anyone else commits to making the move to this area, they need to change the rules.

Frankly, I have friends who wanted new houses... heck why not after living in older places due to cost constraints? Certainly that would sweeten the pot for making a move to AL, right? Like I wouldn't have chosen this but hey, a house with all the trimmings? American Pie? Wellll that's a nice picture....

Too bad all I got was pie in my face and a foundation of worry.

Now people coming here or considering coming here are disappointed. Fool us once SHAME ON YOU, fool us TWICE? Shame on us. I won't carry that shame... no way.

[wrldtravlr]

I have been following these threads with great interest and here is my input:

1. Alabama being a buyer beware state really has nothing to do with the developer changing CCRs. It is the buyer's due dilegence to verify ALL INFORMATION THAT IS IMPORTANT TO THEM such as school zones, property tax rates, CCRs, ect. Therefore, it was YOUR due diligence to obtain this information, either through your Realtor or on your own.
2. When you purchase a home in a neighborhood where the developer still holds control, then that developer retains the right to make changes as he deems necessary, just as an HOA with control can make changes as they deem necessary. No one is playing "bait and switch". That is how it is. Maybe you should look at how thoroughly you read the CCRs...I know for a fact that has been in Woodland's in their various neighborhoods, as well as every other developer's CCRs that I have ever read.
3. Moderator cut: comment about another member I think dvlsadvc8 has made some very valid points that just hurts you to hear....
4. As far as developers/builders "hiding" or refusing to give their CCR docs upon request...that is ludicris. This past week, I contacted 10 builders in the area and requested CCR docs for specific neighborhoods. Guess what? Within a day all had complied. I also have several friends who live in Woodland neighborhoods who NEVER had issues with getting that requested info. If it wasn't posted online, they had it emailed to them without delay. All builders were more than happy to provide the info I requested.

While homeowners can see that it is not "fair" for a developer to change things in their CCRs after homes have been purchased, reality is that they CAN do it, and if you DON'T want that to happen, then you should have purchased in a HOA community, which still could make changes that YOU don't agree with.

What you have done on here is a complete misrepresentation of our area. The statement you made about Huntsville homes being so much more than Birmingham because the builders are "targeting" you Moderator cut: comment . Actually, there are areas of Birmingham that sell at a higher PPF than even the very upscale parts of Huntsville or Madison. There are areas that sell lower, and there are hot markets.

Moderator cut: .,

[friday13]

Simply put, from what I gathered so far, we need not as much disclosure - that is being done upon request from the buyer - but to be informed immediately/timely of any change in CCR's either by a builder-controlled or resident-controlled HOA. Can't that be done by a mass email to the residents? or an announcement posted at common areas (pool, club house)?

[ionlife]

he doesn't want to inform us... that's the point.. they can take out loans against the HOA and we can be paying it off for years after they are gone... this is ridiculous. I'm not having a drama fit over this... I am dramamama -- see PT two of the handle. This isn't about being melodramatic... this is about developers NOT BEING HONEST.

Period.

BUYER BEWARE.

[ionlife]

Originally Posted by wrldtravlr

I have been following these threads with great interest and here is my input:

1. Alabama being a buyer beware state really has nothing to do with the developer changing CCRs. It is the buyer's due dilegence to verify ALL INFORMATION THAT IS IMPORTANT TO THEM such as school zones, property tax rates, CCRs, ect. Therefore, it was YOUR due diligence to obtain this information, either through your Realtor or on your own.

I believe I did perform DUE DILIGENCE to the best of my ability as I have stated several times in various threads on this forum. As you are new to posting, I can only imagine that you may not have followed all the threads.

[ionlife]

Originally Posted by wrldtravlr

I have been following these threads with great interest and here is my input:

No one is playing "bait and switch". That is how it is. Maybe you should look at how thoroughly you read the CCRs...I know for a fact that has been in Woodland's in their various neighborhoods, as well as every other developer's CCRs that I have ever read.
3. Moderator cut: .. I think dvlsadvc8 has made some very valid points that just hurts you to hear....
!

Moderator cut: orphaned quote

Because the drama part has nothing to do with the reality I am representing. My point in many other posts was that the developers, indeed, had similar C&R and they were all written by the same law firm. Why? I am not hurt by advocate at all. I think dvlsadc8 has said some interesting things, but they don't address the validity of this post/this problem. This is a STATE wide problem due to the good old boy network being in place.

[ionlife]

Originally Posted by wrldtravlr

I have been following these threads with great interest and here is my input:

While homeowners can see that it is not "fair" for a developer to change things in their CCRs after homes have been purchased, reality is that they CAN do it, and if you DON'T want that to happen, then you should have purchased in a HOA community, which still could make changes that YOU don't agree with.

What you have done on here is a complete misrepresentation of our area. The statement you made about Huntsville homes being so much more than Birmingham because the builders are "targeting" you is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Actually, there are areas of Birmingham that sell at a higher PPF than even the very upscale parts of Huntsville or Madison. There are areas that sell lower, and there are hot markets.

Wow, I guess some of the comments I made are really making an impact for this post to be so irate. However, I have not misrepresented this area. I have personally researched this by looking at the real estate markets in B'ham, N'ville, and Knoxville. I also compared this market to ORLANDO, HOUSTON and other LARGER cities with way more amenities... price point here is ridiculously high. So it is LUDICROUS to say I am misrepresenting the area. Also, I have spoken to many people who relocated 3-4 years ago and they saw a steep increase in price point once the BRAC was announced. Also, when city councils and chamber of commerce web sites for this area state: what does the BRAC mean for you? I discern that this means HOW CAN WE MAKE A LITTLE MONEY.

Here's the deal, I'd bet dollars to donuts that the reason you're piping up now is that most likely you are not rep of homebuyers but of home sellers or perhaps, I don't know, married to one?

I don't think everyone is "out to get me." I believe the situation is this: the developers saw big cash flowing into the area by the BRAC, the realtors saw big NoVA money flowing in via the BRAC and everyone wanted a piece of that pie. Heck the realtors were going out to CA a few years ago to sell this story to investors out there. Come on. Give me a break. Sure, I don't feel personally targeted, but there was a targeted investment in developing land, bringing in investors and more.

Unfortunately, this backfired. BRAC isn't here yet. The MARKET WENT DOWN, and ooooooohhhh... greedy people needed money to cover their bad choices.

Were you out to get me? no. But the SOME of the area developers, or all, have tried to make back their money by using the NONDISCLOSURE LAWS in this state to hurt innocent homebuyers.

That appalls me.

And I plan to let people know what I've been saying all along: I LOVE MY HOUSE, I LOVE MY NEIGHBORHOOD, I LOVE MY COMMUNITY AND I LOVE MY SCHOOLS, BUT UNTIL THE DEVELOPER RELEASES US PLEASE DON'T BUY A NEW HOME.

Period.

And sorry to BURST YOUR BUBBLE, but I am not going anywhere, and I don't have too much time on my hands. I have many other irons in the fire. This is one iron.

Believe me, I have probably got way more going on in my life, full as it is, than to let this one tiny mistake (or being duped) stop me from having a great life.

I am quite happy in AL. It's not my first choice, but it's not my last.

Glad you lurked.

[friday13]

Originally Posted by dramamama

price point here is ridiculously high. Also, I have spoken to many people who relocated 3-4 years ago and they saw a steep increase in price point once the BRAC was announced. Also, when city councils and chamber of commerce web sites for this area state: what does the BRAC mean for you? I discern that this means HOW CAN WE MAKE A LITTLE MONEY.

While I cannot give too much input into the HOA issue - in fact I am dismissing any MLS listing with a HOA - I can agree with the BRAC prices comment. Been here five years now and seen it all happening the way you describe it. To be fair, I am a homebuyer, and surely affected by the BRAC-hyped prices - and a seller secondly, but when the time comes to sell, I'll sell it no matter what. I am trying to save a buck on the buying side by closely monitoring the market for 4-5 years before taking the plunge. Meanwhile, my sqfootage dropped from 2500 to 1800-2000 sft for the money I am willing to spend!

[ionlife]

Thank you Friday13... you are echoing what many relocating people have said to me. As a transplant, and a happy one in general, I concur.

We don't regret coming here. We don't regret our buying our home. It's lovely. As is our neighborhood, our schools and our community. But there are times when we look at each other and wonder why it is so high here? We could have bought the same house in a similar location (read great schools) in Knoxville for 75K less. And in Hoover, AL, a wonderful area in Birmingham, we see the same story.

Does that mean I'm feeling persecuted? Heck no.

I do believe I, and many other transplants or would be transplants, have valid points due to our background and experience. Sometimes posters seem to want to dilute the messages we have with unwarranted attacks (based on a fun poster name? get real), but the truth is, we have spoken OUR truth.

And the truth is, the ears listening to MY truth are more important to me than one or two people on an anonymous forum who don't seem to get the big picture.

This is all well and good. I do hope it will help others in our situation who are wanting to buy. Truth is, we'd buy here again. We made as informed a decision as possible. And, up until the HOA debacle, despite the higher price point, we READILY RECOMMENDED OUR DEVELOPER.

Why? Because even though building a new home is at times very painful (no matter who the builder is), the developer of our neighborhood does build a LOVELY HOME and we LOVE OUR HOME. And the developer does have beautiful properties and the aesthetics are gorgeous.

I'd love to be SET FREE TO RECOMMEND AGAIN. It would be fabulous.

But I, as a moral person, and one who enjoys a hitting the pillow with my conscious on the right side of the fence, can't recommend anything anymore till that happens.

Imagine how liberating that would be for buyers and sellers.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by dramamama

But there are times when we look at each other and wonder why it is so high here? We could have bought the same house in a similar location (read great schools) in Knoxville for 75K less. And in Hoover, AL, a wonderful area in Birmingham, we see the same story.

Paying a higher price in $/sqft is only a problem if that price was inflated. (We don't know yet if it was; but in just about everywhere else in the country, housing prices are falling at a higher rate than here.) If we bought high and that was not inflated, then we most likely would sell high or higher. I think we're all pretty much OK, at least compared to most other places. And even if housing prices fell 5% here, most of the places we would move to would most likely go down too.

Another question to ask, how do median housing prices in the Huntsville area compare to the median incomes? I'll bet pretty healthily. Compare that to Orange County or maybe other places we all moved from like Virginia. In Orange County it is still like 6:1 rather than a more healthy 3.5:1 or something like that. Meaning, the Huntsville area housing prices are probably pretty close to the levels modeled by supply/demand/income relationships.

The bottom line is, if I were to sell my home in the next year, even if I sold at a 5% loss, I could be pretty sure that where ever I bought next would have gone down at least that much.