A Bigger and Batter Downtown for Madison (Birmingham, Huntsville: lofts, homes)

[Southlander]

I didn't major in urban planning, but it seems to me that downtowns have to be organic....they just "happen," and it takes many, many years to develop. It's not something you can plan.

Any examples otherwise?

[deesonic]

Since when do suburbs have downtowns anyway? I realize the town was founded in 18whatever. But let's face it, it's a suburb. I used to live in Aurora, Colorado which had well over 200,000 people when I was there. Did it have a downtown? Nope. It was merely an overgrown suburb of Denver.

[CharlotteRJ]

Originally Posted by Southlander

I didn't major in urban planning, but it seems to me that downtowns have to be organic....they just "happen," and it takes many, many years to develop. It's not something you can plan.

Any examples otherwise?

A lot of older communities were actually planned at the outset. Savannah, GA, and Old Town Alexandria, VA, come to mind. These cities were planned without cars in mind, and so they're more naturally walkable neighborhoods. The history of planning is actually quite rich and long.

A more recent example of a neighborhood that's come to life quickly has been the Clarendon/Courthouse area of Arlington, VA. 10-15 years ago, you didn't go there. The area has been completely revitalized - there are a lot of businesses, some high rises, a lot of 2-3 story buildings, and some more mall-like infill developments. Housing prices within walking distances of metro stops and this development area have skyrocketed. I work there currently, and every day picking which of the 20 places to eat lunch within a one block radius is a challenge.

Most of my recent experience has been in the DC area, but I've lived in other metros as well (Philly; Madison, WI; Minneapolis/St. Paul). In-town areas with that kind of walkable growth are generally the neighborhoods with the highest home prices per square feet. When prices fell in the DC metro, it was the suburbs that lost the most value, while a house in walkable Arlington has retained most of its value.

The tricky part about Huntsville/Madison, and I say this having never actually been there (not since I was 11, anyway) is that the downtown area is not the focus of jobs. If you have offices and jobs, you can attract people who want to live closer to work, and restaurants to feed people lunches and for happy hour. In addition to above the store apartments, you plan a network of housing with narrow lots and alley access so that people who live near the downtown can also use the downtown without driving. You can't just plop a downtown into the middle of suburban hell and expect it to flourish.

I'm just an amateur hack when it comes to planning, but I've got to say, the idea of putting in a Walmart to revitalize a downtown area makes my brain hurt.

[julilg]

Originally Posted by deesonic

Since when do suburbs have downtowns anyway? I realize the town was founded in 18whatever. But let's face it, it's a suburb. I used to live in Aurora, Colorado which had well over 200,000 people when I was there. Did it have a downtown? Nope. It was merely an overgrown suburb of Denver.

Alabama has low property taxes and is heavily dependent on sales tax. If everyone shops and dines in another town, that town rcvs the municipal portion of the sales tax leaving Madison with insufficient revenue to support the increasing number of residents on the roads, in the schools, dialing 911,...

[julilg]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcarnage

Isn't there already a Wal-Mart strip mall on Hwy 20? That's not very far from downtown Madison...

Originally Posted by CharlotteRJ

I'm just an amateur hack when it comes to planning, but I've got to say, the idea of putting in a Walmart to revitalize a downtown area makes my brain hurt.

I understood the article as saying that the Mayor's vision is to extend the downtown boundaries to include the current Walmart, not to add another one. As rnc76 posted, it is not a reasonable walking distance, I sure don't understand what he's thinking.

[djmaxwell]

Originally Posted by deesonic

Did it have a downtown? Nope. It was merely an overgrown suburb of Denver.

Not true. Colfax could be considered a downtown area for Aurora.

[CharlotteRJ]

Originally Posted by deesonic

Since when do suburbs have downtowns anyway? I realize the town was founded in 18whatever. But let's face it, it's a suburb. I used to live in Aurora, Colorado which had well over 200,000 people when I was there. Did it have a downtown? Nope. It was merely an overgrown suburb of Denver.

It's true that a lot of suburbs don't have a downtown area. I guess the real question is, should they? Should suburbs be nothing but bedroom communities, or can they be viable and healthy small towns in their own right?

Especially in the east where a lot of development happened pre-automobiles, many larger cities are collections of neighborhoods. You might have one large downtown, but you'll have mini downtowns in distinct neighborhoods, giving them more character than your typical strip mall.

[deesonic]

Originally Posted by djmaxwell

Not true. Colfax could be considered a downtown area for Aurora.

Well yeah if you define "downtown" very loosely. Granted it's been ten years since I was in Aurora and things may have changed drastically. Same goes for Madison's current downtown. Heck, I could argue that Hazel Green has a downtown for that matter. Suburbs tend to think of themselves as residents of the central city. In other words, when folks from Madison travel out of state they typically will say they are from Huntsville. Aurorans are basically Denverites (or whatever they call themselves) who live on the wrong side of Havana Street. So, Huntsville's downtown basically is Madison's downtown. If we are in Madison and you say you have to run downtown, I would assume you mean downtown Huntsville.

[djmaxwell]

Originally Posted by deesonic

Well yeah if you define "downtown" very loosely. Granted it's been ten years since I was in Aurora and things may have changed drastically. Same goes for Madison's current downtown. Heck, I could argue that Hazel Green has a downtown for that matter. Suburbs tend to think of themselves as residents of the central city. In other words, when folks from Madison travel out of state they typically will say they are from Huntsville. Aurorans are basically Denverites (or whatever they call themselves) who live on the wrong side of Havana Street. So, Huntsville's downtown basically is Madison's downtown. If we are in Madison and you say you have to run downtown, I would assume you mean downtown Huntsville.

With the state that Huntsville's downtown is in, I'd suggest that Colfax is as much, if not more of, a downtown area for Aurora than anything that Huntsville has.

As for identification, I didn't consider myself to be a Denverite. When out of state, I may have stated I was from Denver for simplicity, but that was for the benefit of the other person. Aurora is much more than a bedroom community. It has plenty of industry to set it apart from Denver. I didn't get over to Denver all that often.

Now, to Madison, I know of many long time residents who see the two cities as very separate. They remember when there was a great deal of space between the two. For those of us who are relative newcomers where the two have run into each other, this seems like no big deal.

[DvlsAdvc8]

Originally Posted by dee 42

What's a batter downtown?

Madison is getting a downtown ballpark too?

Wait... Madison has a downtown to revitalize? I'm just another transplant, but when we arrived we couldn't figure out why Madison was its own town. I gather that fairly recently it was just a couple thousand people.

Merge it up with Huntsville, its not like Huntsville doesn't virtually surround Madison now anyway.