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Hi Cleosmom, Mike and Volosong. I'm glad you all posted.
I think most of us who have posted have two things in common: None of us attended the 4th of July celebrations in the middle of the crowds, although I saw the fireworks and music from a location with a good view. Secondly, we all seem to be dog lovers.
I use to have to use Valium on my fur baby to get her through the 4th. As everyone has stated, all those extra, unneeded and dangerous "home fireworks" irritate me too. This has to be addressed with the Legislature. Three homes in Boise were burned due to neighborhood fireworks.
I'm going to contact my state reps. Too many people and fur babies are suffering.
I agree Mike, ever since I was a little kid the City of Idaho Falls has had a parade and Fireworks at night. Some cities might have had sprinklers and a pancake breakfast. It has always been important to the Eastern Idaho Residents to celebrate their freedoms.
I agree, Mike, there are many occupations that are dangerous. We've all seen the risks police officers face this week.
Volosong, Mike and f5, what would you prefer people say to you? I think the "Thank you for your service," has come from more recent conflicts. Many were determined to make sure no serviceman or woman was ever treated like Nam Vets were. However, IDK that much thought was given to Veterans from earlier wars and how they would feel hearing those words.
Mike, f5, Volosong and others, what would you prefer we say or do? I understand the degree each person was in danger may have been different. But each of you gave up years of your life, knowing you could be in the most dangerous places in the world, to protect us back home.
This discussion is useful to me as I'm learning more about Veterans who served during different decades. For adding different perspectives to the discussion I thank all of you
Saying "thank you for your service," to me is an insult. Most people do not mean it, just think it is cool to say, and considering most who say it were not even born when I was in the service. a few months ago I really jumped on some guy outside of Smith's who was asking people if they were vets (he was selling something for some vet group), I answer yes, he said "thank you for your service," and I have an idea he will be careful who he says that to in the future. Cause I jumped on him and explained why, in my opinion, that is an insult to a "Nam vet, considering it was many years ago and when we were in the service the work "thank" was usually replaced with another word (I cannot say here).
So my opinion is don't say anything to someone who is not in a uniform or you do not know. But my opinion may not be for everyone; besides, I'm about as un-politically correct as I can be and I work hard to be that way.
Good luck addressing the reps. They allow even ILLEGAL fireworks to be sold in the state due to the influence from those who sell the fireworks. And then they expect people to actually abide by the fact the fireworks that leave the ground will not be used in the state, that shows they DO NOT care or they are too stupid to realize people will ignore the legality of shooting off rockets. And that will remain until the local police start to enforce the laws with some hefty fines. Word will spread. However, the word is out now that the cops could careless what people shoot off.
As for dogs...
My female Mal just comes and lays on my feet when the idiots start shooting off the fireworks (luckily she does not jump on my lap since she weighs over 100 lbs), later when in bed she sleeps close. The male Mal, is not that affected. He acts a bit nervous at first, but then just seems to lay back and ignore the sounds as he gets used to the noise.
I'd rather people not say anything. If the situation was such that something has to be said, then a simple "thanks" is enough. With people who really know me, a "glad you came through it okay" would be all right. But, only if they were more than a casual acquaintance. I agree with f5 in that saying "thank you for your service" might not be consciously presented as an insult, but it sure smacks at 'political correctness'. Like f5, I am definitely not politically correct. I warn my college students about that on the first lecture night. I tell them if they can't handle it, then maybe they should take the class from someone else.
I missed out on the whole Vietnam coming home experience. Just didn't happen in my case. I came back, was discharged a couple months early so that I could start attending college classes the upcoming semester, went back home, and resumed my life. In a lot of ways, I was pretty naive and innocent. My parents raised their children to be pretty independent and I just went about my business, kept my nose clean, and didn't care what others thought.
However, for many decades I felt that I was four years behind my peers, those with which I graduated from high school. Here, they were just graduating from college and starting careers while I was just starting college. When I finally graduated and started my career, they had a four-year head start and were moving up the ladder while I was taking out the trash and swabbing the floors. It probably wasn't until I was in my 40s before I didn't feel that disadvantage anymore.
In hindsight, that four-year delay in getting my life on track were probably worth while. In my youth, I was pretty immature and was a 'late bloomer'. Approaching my 65th birthday next month, I still feel like I haven't 'grown up' yet. Just yesterday on the phone I made a smart-alec comment to something my lady friend said which made her stop and she remarked, "That's what I love about you. You act like a kid." Huh? About the only thing I could say is that I hope that I never grow up.
My experiences in Vietnam did affect me in two ways, one which I won't mention because it could be construed to be troll bait, and the other I won't go into detail here on an anonymous forum. I will only say that every April 19th, I'd become more introspective than normal and think upon what happened that date in 1972. The first April 19th that I didn't think about it was the day of the Oklahoma City bombing where everyone's attention was on that event. The next day, I realized, "Hey, I didn't think about 'x' at all yesterday." I knew then that I had put the ghosts behind me. The events of that day come back to me from time to time, but it's no big deal anymore.
Hopes this helps you, MSR, understand a little bit more. For the most part, I don't think we want the extra, added attention. It's just something we did, and we all had different reasons.
On fireworks, I'll probably attend a fireworks show again, but it will be from a photography hobbyist viewpoint. I still haven't figured out the 'secret' yet to creating those beautiful fireworks photographs, and there are not many opportunities to practice.
My homecoming was a bit staggered. First stop was Fitzsimmons Hospital, Aurora CO, then after a few months, back to MI, and that is where I first encountered the great homecoming. Probably dumb of me to fly standby in uniform, but hindsight is always better.
Remained for over a month, then flew back to SE Asia as a civilian and went to work for a non-military organization.
Yea, we all have those dates we keep remembering and hope we forget. Oct 2, my final day in 'Nam is one of those, and so is 4-18-83, the day the world blew up around me.
Fireworks...
I attended a Moab firework display a year or two before I actually moved to Moab. In the six years I lived there I never again attended a display.
These photo are from that night.
Nikon D300
Tripod
Remote shutter cable
I believe settings were around F16 and a piece of cardboard.
Lock the shutter open and move the cardboard to block the lens and guess at when to remove it for each photo. had about 32 decent shots.
Wow that's good to know. I'll just keep my mouth shut from now on (unless I'm talking to my father, another Vietnam vet)
This whole time, I thought I was showing my gratitude. Who knew I was actually upsetting and offending the vets?!
Note: read further and I explained myself...
"So my opinion is don't say anything to someone who is not in a uniform or you do not know. But my opinion may not be for everyone; besides, I'm about as un-politically correct as I can be and I work hard to be that way."
I'm way beyond wanting any gratitude from someone I don't know in regard to the Vietnam police action! But if your dad appreciates it; good for him!
I feel about the same as Volo. I don't like to be singled out in a group as a vet either, and if I'm asked, I would rather have someone ask what service I was in than be thanked for it, as I'm proud of my time on the sea. But a simple thanks, and with nothing else attached, is ok.
My discharge was also identical to Volo's. I was released a few months early so I could go back to college, and I came close to not coming back to Idaho at all, as by co-incidence, I was asked if I wanted to join a band the day I walked out of the gates for good.
The offer came from a gal I had played music with off and on during my years in the Norfolk area. She was planning to move west and form a group there, and I very nearly took her up on the offer. If I had, you possibly would know my name by now, as she went on to become quite famous.
I enlisted in part to go see the world, and got that done very well, indeed, and though I would have gone where I was sent, I was always thankful that the vagaries of military service kept me far away from Nam. I chose the Navy because the Navy travels. If I had been sent to shore duty, I would have put in for sea duty. That's where I wanted to be. And by the time I was discharged, I'd seen enough and done enough to last me.
Although the offer was very tempting, I didn't want to go back to California with a band. I missed Idaho more than anything, and at age 25, I just wanted to come back and spend some time in familiar dirt again, so I did. And never looked back. I have no regrets at all about my choices.
In my case, when I returned to college, I was sort of revered by the younger folks as a vet. A part of that, I think, was because I had 'seen the elephant' and could talk about the military from experience, and another part was my thoughts on the war. I had no thoughts either way when I enlisted in 1965, but by 1968, I had grown to believe the war was a mistake, and I wanted us out ASAP.
But at the same time, I was more conservative than the some younger students, and less conservative than others. I was also one of the few students who could discuss the war with our professors objectively, and did, sometimes, in class. Those discussions were more adult to adult than teacher and student oftentimes.
What was nice about this was I developed 2 entirely different sets of friends of different ages from my college years. One group is 4 years or more older than the other. Some of my relationships with professors endured too.
I was never cut out for the universities as they were back then. For me, college was like a big tasty fruit cake; I always found myself spending more time on something arcane I came across than doing my assigned work, and college always has way too many interesting pursuits to follow. I was like a dog chasing a rabbit, and I was always making straight A's or straight F's, depending on the semester and what most interested me at the moment.
That's still true. My professions are plural because I now know how to do a lot of ancient things few can do anymore, while at the same time, I've always tried to keep up on the edge of many different crafts and skill sets. Still have no hobbies- everything I am interested in tends to make me money and always has, including the experiences I had when in the Navy.
...I was always making straight A's or straight F's, depending on the semester and what most interested me at the moment...
Don't know if you have ever been told this. I was sort of the same way, all throughout my schooling. I either got A's and B's or C's and D's. Only a few F's, mostly B's and C's. And like you, it depended on my interest level of the subject. My mom would always rag on me for not applying myself. What I was told much later is that this behavior is a sign of higher than average intelligence. Have you ever been told that, or have taken a proctored IQ examination and was surprised by the result?
Wow that's good to know. I'll just keep my mouth shut from now on (unless I'm talking to my father, another Vietnam vet)
This whole time, I thought I was showing my gratitude. Who knew I was actually upsetting and offending the vets?!
I'm a vet from another era. I served on our nation's submarines from 1986-2007. I suspect it's different for my generation than it was for those who served before me. Sometimes it makes me slightly uncomfortable, but doesn't offend or upset me. Generally, I try to take it in the vein that it was offered.
After September 11, 2001, I found that in general, the nation's attitude toward the military took a big swing. Prior to 911, I remember 1 single time that I was thanked for my service. It was about 3 days after my family moved back from La Maddalena, Italy, where we'd been stationed for the last 3 years. We were eating breakfast at Denny's, and were obviously showing some culture shock, being back in america. An older couple from the next table over engaged us in conversation about our time in Italy. They thanked me for my service. I was humbled to think anyone would thank me for what I did.
Since 911, I've been thanked countless times. I answer "It was my honor to serve", and move along. It doesn't bother me, but I don't particularly feel like I needed thanking, so it's always very slightly uncomfortable.
I'm not refuting anyone else's point of view. I'm merely offering my view, from a different generation of veterans. And, it's a very different view from those that put feet on the ground in a hostile country. I served in 3 wars, and my ship fired shots in anger, which I guess means I did too, but it didn't feel that way from the engineering spaces of a submerged submarine 900 miles from the target area.
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They allow even ILLEGAL fireworks to be sold in the state due to the influence from those who sell the fireworks. And then they expect people to actually abide by the fact the fireworks that leave the ground will not be used in the state, that shows they DO NOT care or they are too stupid to realize people will ignore the legality of shooting off rockets. And that will remain until the local police start to enforce the laws with some hefty fines. Word will spread. However, the word is out now that the cops could careless what people shoot off. 
that's good to know. I'll just keep my mouth shut from now on (unless I'm talking to my father, another Vietnam vet)
