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And it's that way here in NID. We were cautioned to change our plates quickly upon arrival, NOT because people would have treated us with hostility, but that we wanted people to meet us and make up their own minds about our family.
Especially here in Sandpoint, we have met SEVERAL recent Californian transplants who really have turned us off...people who move here with the "it's all about me" yuppie attitudes. So I understand when other friends of ours (locals) have a dim view of Californians in general, when even I don't like several of their attitudes...
Trust me, we were a far cry from "yuppies" (and still are). We are regular, everyday working, middle class citizens (not sure why I should have to explain that). But again, it was long ago. There were ads in the paper stating "non mormons need not apply". It was ugly. Perhaps it had nothing to do with being from California, but everything to do with not being mormon? But there were "Don't Californicate" bumpers stickers everywhere. Even when my children were young, there were absurd happenings like the neighbor who decided that because my 6-year old son carried her 6-year old daughters pack to school, that meant they were ahhh....boyfriend/girlfriend and so she didn't want her little girl to walk to school with my son. Here I thought it was adorable Not to mention those who repeatedly attempted to convert my children against my known wishes.
And so, yes, it left a bad taste in my mouth that I can't seem to get rid of. If we had it to do over again, we would have either stayed in California or moved elsewhere. Eventually we found our own crowd, many of whom suffered through similar discrimination and feel much the same way that we do.
Last edited by eastidahomom; 11-23-2008 at 07:43 AM..
I just hope folks don't let this kind of anecdotal evidence factor into such a serious decision as where to live. Honestly, the only problem I've had in about 4 months was LDS visitors being too friendly, and I already resolved that problem.
My middle schoolers haven't had any problem, have tons of friends, from here and many other states, I had no trouble getting work right away, I haven't been charged more than anyone else for anything, I haven't been pulled over, and I drive ALOT, I haven't even been flipped off, and I tend towards being at least an aggressively defensive driver.
Maybe like DESERTRYDER says, it's my nice smile, but honestly, I think it has more to do with the fact that I am not doing anything to p*** anybody off or disrespect anyone, as well as the fact that evidently the Idaho Falls area I'm in is more tolerant than some other areas.
But still, making generalizations can lead to error. Nobody tampered with my prominent and vulnerable Obama sign, and I have even seen Obama signs prominently (and vulnerably) displayed in Rexburg.
From reading the Sheriff's reports it sounds like if I had planted my Obama sign in the liberal town in California I moved from, I'd have run a high risk of finding my windshield smashed.
So sure everyone's experience is valid, for them, but I'd hate to think folks wouldn't investigate for themselves, and take these tales of discrimination with a grain of salt.
I'm thinking eastidahomom and I have been in the area for about the same amount of time as I do recall that of which she speaks.
During this amount of time I've witnessed the slow growth of diversity which is paving the way for more to move to the area without as many obstacles.
Back then a classmate of my friend's son said some pretty crass things to the boy because the family isn't LDS.
As I said the growth is bringing diversity, which is good as there were a few things that happened to me that I'd hope others wouldn't have to go through.
I'm thinking eastidahomom and I have been in the area for about the same amount of time as I do recall that of which she speaks.
During this amount of time I've witnessed the slow growth of diversity which is paving the way for more to move to the area without as many obstacles.
Back then a classmate of my friend's son said some pretty crass things to the boy because the family isn't LDS.
As I said the growth is bringing diversity, which is good as there were a few things that happened to me that I'd hope others wouldn't have to go through.
Yes, I have witnessed the same with the growth. Hopefully, they will not feel the total lack of consideration and absolute evidence of discrimination that we have felt. Those who moved here some time ago, continue to be rather bitter about how things were and still feel a twinge of the "majority" at times. These types of posts bring back some pretty rotten memories that shouldn't be poo pooed or shoved aside as irrelevant.
Norcalmom, I hope your move to Idaho continues to prove a good move. But kindly try to show consideration and understanding for those who weren't so lucky.
With growth, comes new money. Most new money is made by happenstance. Being in the right company, right industry, and right place at the right time. Aside from those windfall times (think front half of a bubble), income streams in those fortunate spots are rather drab.
Yet, for these individuals, it is as if THEY are the reason for the industry success. Five minutes of conversation with the yahoos will tell you otherwise. Hormone-driven to exclaim to the worth their merits, in actuality they lucked out. All the while, the real economic brain trust is quietly piling up cash and reserves for the future and making smart research-driven decisions--all the while leading a far more balanced lifestyle.
I don't have much respect for those who lucked out and had cash dumped in their laps--this would include many the 'ol trust fund types who did not put their good fortune to much use. I discount the vast majority of people promoted in mass media as anything worthy of emulation. In great contrast, I have utmost respect for those who by their ingenuity, creativity and/or dedication made their fortune. Their community worth goes well beyond dropping c-notes for tips. These are the folks we see at Farmer's markets, at library talks, at townhall meetings, at PTA meetings, and who raise kids who are cut from the same cloth. They are the millionaires next door. They are the ones that provide good jobs. They are too busy and too humbled by the challenges before them to self-promote in every day life.
As hard as it might seem, we should drop the labeling litmus test and instead, if you must judge, judge on these unsexy-to-most, but essential fundamentals. America was built on the backs of both types, with the share of accolades going to those who cultivated imagery rather than those built this country on such solid foundations.
"Californian' has become a euphemism, often misplaced, for this breed of neolibertarianism and bling fueled by funny money. But really, we owe it to ourselves to be more honest with ourselves and fair to those labeled as such by accident of birth. The "californians" with a small "c" (now used as a social descriptor) I can do without, but the Californians of whom I share great rapport over values, philosophy and lifestyle, I count among our greatest assets (along with all those from other states who contribute so much to our community).
Trust me, we were a far cry from "yuppies" (and still are). We are regular, everyday working, middle class citizens (not sure why I should have to explain that). But again, it was long ago. There were ads in the paper stating "non mormons need not apply". It was ugly. Perhaps it had nothing to do with being from California, but everything to do with not being mormon? But there were "Don't Californicate" bumpers stickers everywhere. Even when my children were young, there were absurd happenings like the neighbor who decided that because my 6-year old son carried her 6-year old daughters pack to school, that meant they were ahhh....boyfriend/girlfriend and so she didn't want her little girl to walk to school with my son. Here I thought it was adorable Not to mention those who repeatedly attempted to convert my children against my known wishes.
And so, yes, it left a bad taste in my mouth that I can't seem to get rid of. If we had it to do over again, we would have either stayed in California or moved elsewhere. Eventually we found our own crowd, many of whom suffered through similar discrimination and feel much the same way that we do.
eastidahomom,
I'm really sadden to read the experiences of your family. I think it is important that you share them too.
One thing I try to tell others about eastern ID and the Idaho Falls/Ammon area, is certain neighborhoods, schools etc. have residents with less tolerant views than others. For some relocating, they want to live in neighborhoods with mostly others who share their views. Others want diversity.
One question I'm often asked is about education. I have views probably different than most, based on national test scores and outcome measures. However, with the change in education choices, which probably didn't exist when you relocated, eastidahomom, some different choices now exist. I agree with you - the story you shared sounds cute to me.
I do think it is important to remember that in all things from politics to religion, to exercise regimes to rules about cooking, or how to teach your child music or how to read the quickest etc., there are some who are extreme, some who are more moderate and others who don't care.
I'm more interested if future neighbors will be law-abiding, good neighbors (would they water my lawn or gather my mail for me when I'm gone etc.), and will they contribute more to the area than they expect to receive. There is no one religion, race, or state of previous residence that matter to me about future neighbors and friends. It does matter to me that people are honest, law-abiding and will work with others to improve whatever needs improved.
I believe by posting in boards such as this that these that honest information is shared. No two people will have identical experiences. None of us can change the past; however, we can all be proud of where and when a greater understanding of residents or future residents exists.
I'm glad to have new residents in the area who plan to contribute and improve it, perhaps in ways others would't have thought of previously. The diversity of new residents has helped many now looking at relocating to eastern ID.
I'm really sadden to read the experiences of your family. I think it is important that you share them too.
One thing I try to tell others about eastern ID and the Idaho Falls/Ammon area, is certain neighborhoods, schools etc. have residents with less tolerant views than others. For some relocating, they want to live in neighborhoods with mostly others who share their views. Others want diversity.
One question I'm often asked is about education. I have views probably different than most, based on national test scores and outcome measures. However, with the change in education choices, which probably didn't exist when you relocated, eastidahomom, some different choices now exist. I agree with you - the story you shared sounds cute to me.
I do think it is important to remember that in all things from politics to religion, to exercise regimes to rules about cooking, or how to teach your child music or how to read the quickest etc., there are some who are extreme, some who are more moderate and others who don't care.
I'm more interested if future neighbors will be law-abiding, good neighbors (would they water my lawn or gather my mail for me when I'm gone etc.), and will they contribute more to the area than they expect to receive. There is no one religion, race, or state of previous residence that matter to me about future neighbors and friends. It does matter to me that people are honest, law-abiding and will work with others to improve whatever needs improved.
I believe by posting in boards such as this that these that honest information is shared. No two people will have identical experiences. None of us can change the past; however, we can all be proud of where and when a greater understanding of residents or future residents exists.
I'm glad to have new residents in the area who plan to contribute and improve it, perhaps in ways others would't have thought of previously. The diversity of new residents has helped many now looking at relocating to eastern ID.
Thanks again for the post, eastidahomom.
I hope some healing occurs from this thread.
MSR
Thank you MSR, I really appreciate your post. Some of those times were pretty hard on us. In the work force it was clear that it wasn't knowledge or hard work that would pull you upwards and onwards. Thankfully, a lot of that is changing and thankfully, it is changing as my children are now in that work force. They have not felt the backlash near as much now as they did as innocent children although I know much was very painful for them in their childhood.
It is my hope that those who are coming into the area now, will continue to feel better about their moves and that those long time natives will continue to be more tolerant of others. We're all human beings and we all feel a need to belong and feel at home and at peace with our lives.
With growth, comes new money. Most new money is made by happenstance. Being in the right company, right industry, and right place at the right time. Aside from those windfall times (think front half of a bubble), income streams in those fortunate spots are rather drab.
Yet, for these individuals, it is as if THEY are the reason for the industry success. Five minutes of conversation with the yahoos will tell you otherwise. Hormone-driven to exclaim to the worth their merits, in actuality they lucked out. All the while, the real economic brain trust is quietly piling up cash and reserves for the future and making smart research-driven decisions--all the while leading a far more balanced lifestyle.
I don't have much respect for those who lucked out and had cash dumped in their laps--this would include many the 'ol trust fund types who did not put their good fortune to much use. I discount the vast majority of people promoted in mass media as anything worthy of emulation. In great contrast, I have utmost respect for those who by their ingenuity, creativity and/or dedication made their fortune. Their community worth goes well beyond dropping c-notes for tips. These are the folks we see at Farmer's markets, at library talks, at townhall meetings, at PTA meetings, and who raise kids who are cut from the same cloth. They are the millionaires next door. They are the ones that provide good jobs. They are too busy and too humbled by the challenges before them to self-promote in every day life.
As hard as it might seem, we should drop the labeling litmus test and instead, if you must judge, judge on these unsexy-to-most, but essential fundamentals. America was built on the backs of both types, with the share of accolades going to those who cultivated imagery rather than those built this country on such solid foundations.
"Californian' has become a euphemism, often misplaced, for this breed of neolibertarianism and bling fueled by funny money. But really, we owe it to ourselves to be more honest with ourselves and fair to those labeled as such by accident of birth. The "californians" with a small "c" (now used as a social descriptor) I can do without, but the Californians of whom I share great rapport over values, philosophy and lifestyle, I count among our greatest assets (along with all those from other states who contribute so much to our community).
S
And thank you too Sandpointian. I agree for the most part with the exception of, I don't consider being a born and raised Califorinian an accident of birth, rather a blessing. It taught me much diversity and acceptance of others and for that, I am very fortunate.
I love my religion and refused to hide my crucifix for fear of not landing a job or a "friend". I paid a price for that as did my children. But my beliefs are strong enough that I feel the need to practice and continue them.
I moved here from a small town (pop under 3000) in rural CA. For us, it was moving to a MORE populated area. We fit right in.
But what I've seen already with some people who have moved into this area is that they expect it to be like all the GOOD things (according to their definition) California "used to have" without the BAD things (defined as crime, congestions, smog, etc).
The problem is that so far, a lot of their pre-supposed definitions are wrong. For example, the power goes out and they all gripe about how the power company doesn't have it back on ASAP. Well, we're RURAL and we have a Co-Op (Northern Lights). That means that WE are the ones paying for it all eventually. So your power goes down, you better fire up a generator and suck it up. Angry calls because "we pay our power bills" don't fly here.
Also, I've noticed that Californias have become used to swearing. Well, here we take a more civil view. We bought our place last fall, and I've heard foul language maybe 5-10 times since we moved. I know that MY own kids (and their peers here) view the word "freakin" as right on the borderline of bad language. But people move here from other areas and their kids have been brought up that the F word is normal. NOT HERE, it's not.
Theft? yeah, it happens, but it's SO outside the accepted realm, your kid better not get caught or MEN will beat his ass. You come on my ranch to steal something, you better think about getting away before I get my hands on you. We were at Silverwood amusement park a couple weeks back and I noticed that people STILL leave their personal belongings laying around untended and NOBODY steal them. I mean purses, sunglasses, etc. TRY THAT at Raging Waters.
We have DIRT roads in 90% of the county. And while it might be nice to have them paved, we DO NOT want to pay more taxes, so we leave them dirt. Already we have a neighbor on a crusade to get roads paved because it makes so much dirt on her Range Rover. Ummm...buy another car...or hose of your car. Don't drive up MY taxes because your roads were paved in San Jose.
Don't like guns? Don't move to Idaho. When we moved here, I was going to be a good neighbor and build (cinder block and steel) my own shooting area. First weekend here, I heard gunfire all around us. Neighbors having a good time, and hunting. So we saved a lot of $$ not building a range, but my 10yo kids have more gun safety than most adults I knew in SoCal. Misuse a gun and it's pretty harsh.
Congestion is an issue, even in Sandpoint. They've been struggling with that for a lot longer than the population boom. A 2-lane bridge and a highway that runs right through town. Bypass along Sand Creek is planned (but a subject of much debate), and a new long bridge is apparently in the plans. But it's nothing like driving around CA. Maybe you wait an extra 5 minutes to get somewhere, but you shouldn't live here and be a in a big hurry.
Smog isn't an issue where we are. Water quality is good, but we're concerned about some mining in MT that could be very bad for Lake Pend Oreille, so people are vigilant about keeping it clean AND trash free. Here, when we see litter, we pick it up, even though WE didn't litter. I'm not saying we're out cleaning Highway 95....what I mean is that most people we know here respect the place we live.
So it's not Nirvana, and crime DOES happen since we do have our share of white trash in some areas. But people don't tolerate it, and punishments are still pretty severe compared to CA sentencing guidelines, so we have a LOT less career criminals than CA (I'm a retired cop so that was noteworthy to me).
If you come up to live a quiet rural life and FIT IN, you will find nothing but acceptance and friends. DO NOT worry about a California stigma...just be aware that people will have some initial reservations about you until they see that you're not "one of those Californians".
In closing, I think the issue is that Idaho welcomes people who want to become IDAHOANS...and that means a different mindset from where you're coming from....just be aware of it...
Thank God for this. I finally convinced my wife to pick it up and move on to Idaho. I've been a Californian all my life, but the second I step foot in Idaho, I will already be Idahoan. In fact, my views are already more Idahoan than California now. Can't wait till next year!!!
Although, I only swear when the Denver Broncos lose....can't help it. I keep it indoors though.
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Not to mention those who repeatedly attempted to convert my children against my known wishes. 
So Sorry to Read Your Post
