And out-of-stater curious about Idaho (Boise, Pocatello: transplants, crime, homes)

[boisefan88]

Originally Posted by The_GarGars

I've read through all the points in regards to out-of-staters moving in and causing a population spike to start up (even if there is no intention of building lavish homes or impossible feats of architecture,etc); and I totally understand that, but...is it really so wrong to want to move for a better life? I understand that problems like crime, rape, pollution, inflation, and all other negativity can be found where ever one goes; but is it wrong to want to leave to another place to try and escape some of that? When you live in a county of over 2,035,210 people, you deal with the dredges of society on a daily basis.

For those of you who were blessed enough to be born in this state (Idaho), that's awesome and I envy you; for you didn't have to worry about how people will treat you knowing you moved (or want to move) in from another state (especially Southern California). But, not all of us are that lucky. We can't help that we were born where we were; we just want to live out the rest of our years someplace nice and not where the population of a county is reaching almost 3 million people (Los Angeles is almost at 10 million!).

Sorry, I don't mean for that too come out all sob-story and I'm not looking for pity or anything, I'm just trying to explain our main reason for wanting to leave California.

And thanks to everyone who has posted up here! Even if we don't end up moving to Idaho (or we get chased out if we try. ;D kidding), we'll at least know some good places to visit!

I think that the billions of people who moved to California also moved there for a better life, and to escape the dregs of where they came from. Then, after California was down the dumps, those people moved from California to Oregon, Washington, Arizona, and Colorado. Now, people from those states, as well as California, are moving to Nevada, Idaho, Utah and Montana. The cycle repeats.

The point about staying and fixing your home resonates with me. If Idaho becomes a craphole in 20 years, should we all leave and invade Canada, or North Dakota, or should we stay and try to make Idaho better?

[ejay]

I say leave. And then I will come back. I liked it when no one wanted to live in CDA It was paradise. It's just like anything in life if everyone wants what you have they will use it all up and not give a second thought about the future. No matter how well you take care of a place there are always those who are just there to take and not care about what they are taking away from others. Like the young 21 year old s who toss their empty beer cans in the Cda river as they are floating down. I can't count how many beer cans I have fished out of that river over the last ten years. It was never like this before. They banned bottles because they were leaving those around too. People need to be responsible for what they do. It used to be that others would correct you. Now there is no respect. So you end up getting into a fight. My 45 acp keep those that wanted to beat me for telling them to pick up there mess at bay. Plus when I pointed my camera at them and took their photo it changed their attitude completely. I have turned people in for littering in the river. Photographs don't lie. And the tickets stuck...

[cleosmom]

Originally Posted by The_GarGars

I've read through all the points in regards to out-of-staters moving in and causing a population spike to start up (even if there is no intention of building lavish homes or impossible feats of architecture,etc); and I totally understand that, but...is it really so wrong to want to move for a better life?

No, it is not wrong to want to move for a better life. I do believe our ancestors have been doing such for decades

[DEADTIME]

Try CDA (Coeur D'Alene) it is what your looking for.....I promise if you visit there you will move there...take it to the bank. I too am leaving California with my family and researched for months where to go. We had a very long summer vacation to about 12 states and CDA was the most incredible place. It has a special feel....hard to explain but its just such a gem.

[banjomike]

Originally Posted by The_GarGars

I've read through all the points in regards to out-of-staters moving in and causing a population spike to start up (even if there is no intention of building lavish homes or impossible feats of architecture,etc); and I totally understand that, but...is it really so wrong to want to move for a better life? I understand that problems like crime, rape, pollution, inflation, and all other negativity can be found where ever one goes; but is it wrong to want to leave to another place to try and escape some of that? When you live in a county of over 2,035,210 people, you deal with the dredges of society on a daily basis.

For those of you who were blessed enough to be born in this state (Idaho), that's awesome and I envy you; for you didn't have to worry about how people will treat you knowing you moved (or want to move) in from another state (especially Southern California). But, not all of us are that lucky. We can't help that we were born where we were; we just want to live out the rest of our years someplace nice and not where the population of a county is reaching almost 3 million people (Los Angeles is almost at 10 million!).

Sorry, I don't mean for that too come out all sob-story and I'm not looking for pity or anything, I'm just trying to explain our main reason for wanting to leave California.

And thanks to everyone who has posted up here! Even if we don't end up moving to Idaho (or we get chased out if we try. ;D kidding), we'll at least know some good places to visit!

I know folks who have moved here and fit right in with no fuss or problems. All of the stuff you have read here about the current conditions is true, but not all places here have problems equally. At the same time, I've seen folks come and leave after a year or less.

I think nobody can predict the future and what will happen very accurately these days- for sure, when a place has lower population it doesn't have the stuff that comes along as it grows, but I'm old enough to remember when there were large parts of Idaho Falls that were very dumpy, literally, and the town is much nicer and cleaner now with 3 times the people.

But I.F. hasn't had a population explosion either. A little town like Shoshone is much more vulnerable to real problems if it has a huge influx of folks over a short period of time. I saw that exact thing in Belgrade, MT. I was blown away when I read how much the housing prices had gone up in Shoshone.

The thing about Idaho is the one that has been most mentioned- there is tons of scenery everywhere here, and each area has it's own charms. Even the Arco desert is a cool place to go explore, once you come to appreciate it's subtlety. Folks who live here tend to like wherever they are, I think, and there is still a lot of room to grow here. Hopefully, with wise management, Idaho will avoid the problems that happened with the other states. For sure, it won't stay as it is now; it's going to be up to Idahoans to decide whether it will be better or worse in the years to come.

Every place has a downside. Idaho's wages are lower than neighboring Wyoming and Utah, and depending on the location, jobs right now can be hard to find. The problems that the country faces hit here, just like everywhere else.

But 40 miles away from any city here is wilderness, or close to it. Isolation still abounds. It may be easy for you to adjust to this, and our self-reliant ways, or not... all you can do is come out for a visit and gauge for yourself. For sure, living here would have a decompression period for you and your family, GarGar. Idaho doesn't have many more people in the entire state as where you are now living.

[banjomike]

Originally Posted by Hp1167

Banjo...

The home values in the Wood River Valley have long been extremely high. But Shoshone, in 2007, a new 3 bedroom home cost over 200k. My friend bought one and then immediately got himself underwater, as the house dropped to a more reasonable 150k. Shoshone is not unlike Wendell, Jerome, or Gooding, yet because of the proximity to Sun Valley, the homes are/were 50-75k more than in neighboring cities. Carey was much the same way before the crash.

Thanks for the info, Hp!
I'm familiar with the area- I have friends in Jerome, Twin, and Hagerman, but I have never thought about the housing prices. Obviously, the Wood River Valley has grown bigger and faster than I realized. A lot of the folks I know in that area are musicians, and have been playing in Sun Valley etc. for years.
That has to be one of the longest commutes in the state!

So- I'm guessing that one of the older 2,000 sq.ft. houses in Ketchum or Hailey is going for $450,000? Or is that too low?

New houses similar to the one you described are going here for about the same prices, but with a bigger spread. Bonneville County was growing fast until the housing bubble hit, and there are a lot of good buys here right now. I thought it was being overbuilt in 2004-2007.

[skittles2u]

Originally Posted by Clark Fork Fantast

You'll learn more from one of Banjomike's posts than half a dozen guide books! All the responses here are spot on, as far as my experience goes. I would suggest that you decide for yourself what kind of area you would like for your new home--do you want forests? Close to lakes and rivers? High desert?

I definitely want to avoid any where that has the word "desert" what areas would be considered desert any Idaho? (I've had enough of the heat to last me 2 more lifetimes).

[dcisive]

First and foremost one must come to the realization that not everyone likes the same thing. I'm pretty certain based on my readings that the movie "A River Runs Through It" romanticized Montana and THAT was what started the move of many a movie star and other Californian's to buy land up in Montana. Of course it's Western Montana where the resentment lies for Californians as there ain't nothing in Eastern Montana worth bothering with for the most part With that said I originally came from Chicago and frankly NEVER liked it there preferring the open spaces of Wisconsin or any place I could go that would get me away from mass humanity. I went out to Salt Lake City in my mid 20's to get out of the city and lived there for 3 years, during which time I met a gal I decided to marry. My brother made me an offer I couldn't refuse to come back and work for him in Chicago so I went. After a year and a half I could no longer stand it.

I had 2 friends that had moved years earlier and were prospering in the boom of Silicon Valley in the early 80's. They talked me into the move with my wife. I was able to immediately get a job that paid me more than double what I'd ever made in my life. We rented a house (not an apartment) and she got a great job as well close by (this was in the Bay Area Redwood City FWIW). In 2 years we saved and bought a home a block from the ocean away from the more populated area. it was wonderful indeed. As the 80's progressed the job soured and I ended up jumping into one job to the next. The economy was also getting tougher and the cost of living in California in general was becoming challenged. Our house payment (adjustable) got out of control and my job was lost.

So I entertained a company that was back in Salt Lake City and we sold the house and moved back to Salt Lake City. The shock of how it had changed in ONE decade was overwhelming. It had gone from a pristine clean crime free place to a gang infested, graffiti and billboard overrun place, where the property prices elevated immeasurably also from the Kalifornication. Washington, Oregon, Utah, Idaho, Montana and Colorado had been overrun by those, not unlike myself, that had to either leave California due to the rising costs or their desire to just take advantage of lower land and home prices.

I ended up on the road as a sales rep out of town more than in town (1993) so the elements of Utah weren't as obvious to me as it was if I was in town all the time. Well even that came to an end and since 2004 have been living and working IN town. We finally bought a home again in 2004 during the so called "boom" in a place where it was like country and was quite nice. Now of course, as usual, every friggen tom dick and harry has moved in and the place exploded. Kids running around everywhere with NO peace to be had. There's just NO getting away from it it seems. I'm stuck with the house $100,000 upside down like everyone else since the housing bust. I'm now in my later 50's and just want some friggen peace and quiet.

On our trips to the Northwest we have typically always come home through Northern Idaho and stayed in McCall and Sun Valley. I love it up there and the country is wonderful. It is just so nice to get OUT of the craziness and I can certainly relate to those on this board that are on 5 and 10 acres with some quiet and privacy. I would love that some day but it may not happen the way the economy is and how the houses have lost their values. So I'll live vicariously through some of you that post here that live up in these out of the way places that still have some peace and quiet. Sorry for the long post but I just needed to vent. I can only dream of what it would be like to not have to wear ear plugs to sleep because of the traffic noises and bozo's with their Harley's that want to show off and cars burning rubber and screaming kids. So I'll keep coming here to visit to dream of what it "could" be like if I struck it rich

[banjomike]

Hi, Skittles...
A desert is simply a dry area with little poor soil- a wasteland. Deserts have sparse vegetation and are mostly uninhabited. They can be cold year round as easily as they can be hot.

Where you live in S. California, your idea of what constitutes a desert is closer to this classic definition of the term than here in Idaho. Natives here still use 'desert' to describe a lot of areas in Southern Idaho, but the most accurate term is 'steppe'. A steppe is dry, but covered with native grasses and shrubbery, with random streams running through it. That's what Idaho really is- lots of sagebrush, rolling high arid plains descending from surrounding mountains and broken terrain that has timbered and treeless areas about equally.
To the pioneers who first came out here, most of S. Idaho probably did look like nothing but a waste land. Compared to the great grass prairie that covered the middle of the nation, and the heavy forests east of the Mississippi and Missouri, it's natural that they thought so.

But 120 years later, the landscape has dramatically changed in much of this area. Just as irrigation transformed the desert of the Great Salt Lake, very much of Idaho was transformed as well when the ground got steadily watered. There are still plenty of wild areas, and parts of this country is true desert, but most is very similar to E. Colorado, New Mexico, S. Utah, E. Montana, and Wyoming. All are steppes, and very similar to most of Mongolia, the steppes of the Ukraine, Spain, and the high plains of Hungary. Good country if you like wide open spaces.

While Idaho's cities are becoming steadily more urban, this is still farm land and cowboy country. It's going to be a very long time before anything here resembles Southern California in the least.

[banjomike]

Hi, dcisive...
What really bothers you is the ugliness of modern urbanity and the suburbs. Ever since the 50's, when the automobile allowed everyone a lot of ability to move out of cities, America's idea of a perfect place to live ever since the end of World War II has been a Nice Little Home In The Country.

That is not to say most folks want a farm. Far from it. They wanted a cut-down version of the country manor, a house with a lawn, gardens and space between them and their next door neighbors. This was once only something the wealthy could aspire to.

A suburb is just a more tightly packed version of one country manor next to another, divided by fences, and all requiring a car to do anything, go anywhere there was civic congregation, and didn't allow for any pedestrian movement. Suburbs eventually grew to the size where businesses were needed to service them, so commercial areas developed with no sense of what makes a community cohesive. It's all get in the car, go, park in the parking lot, and go inside. Everything outside, in nature, is barren and largely devoid of life.

Cities that have open public spaces where it is naturally nice to go to, where people can go shopping, just hang out, and are focused areas for civic and social events all do better than those where there is nothing but pavement and buildings that don't create a welcoming outside space.

My hometown, Idaho Falls, has a river running through the middle of it with a long cascade in the river. It is a natural place for folks to gather, and our courthouse, city hall, library, some museums, and the other places where civic affairs are conducted are close by the river. We're blessed, but we are still just as prone to creating ugly malls as anywhere else in the country. The further away from the river, the uglier it gets, and the more dependent on a car becomes.

But there is nowhere in Idaho that has been conquered by the sprawl of the 20th Century. I doubt very much that the L.A. basin and it's extended metroplex will ever be duplicated here, even if it becomes largely abandoned in the future. The nightmares you hated so much simply won't be repeated again in the future, because everyone else hates them as much as you.

The automobile allowed us all great freedom, but our society became far too much centered around it, not us as social humans. I believe that our way of creating our living places is going to change drastically as the problems of our auto-centered society steadily increase and become ever more difficult and expensive to maintain. it will be very hard for us to change our ways, as this is the way almost all of us has ever known.

I think the changes are going to come fast, too. The age of the McMansion, the ultimate phony Home In The Country, is over, and the age of cheap oil is dead and gone. Our cities will become more as they are in Europe, where they grew organically over centuries. We won't ever become European in our thinking, but we will surely abandon the lifestyle of the cities we created in the 50's.

If not us, our kids will change it up. And it's happening right now, in the older cities of the East and Midwest.