Liberial towns in Idaho (Coeur d'Alene, Moscow: hoa, showing, jobs)

[deeptrance]

Originally Posted by sultresweetie

She isn't going to have a problem with the KKK in Idaho. The KKK is the south, and any transplants with the once Hayden Lake compound was disbanded years ago.

Oh, they're still running those re-runs of documentaries about the place that make it look like the whole area is hopping with White Supremacists! I'm glad to hear that it's improving.

Originally Posted by sultresweetie

We did have one older gentleman while we were visiting Star Valley, WY who thought he was the basketball player, Karl Malone! We both got a good laugh from that experience! I think people take a second glance, because it's so rare to see a black person in the region, but we haven't experienced any racism yet.

True story from Bend, Oregon: I was out with a friend one evening, and we overheard a child who saw a Black man walking down the street, and the child exclaimed, "Look, mom, a Cosby!" His only reference point for people with African features was watching the Cosby show. Nothing negative, he was really excited and probably wanted to go hang out with "the Cosby". This was back in the 1980s, I think by now it's become a tiny bit more integrated so that a child of 5 or 6 would have actually seen a few Blacks in Bend.

Originally Posted by sultresweetie

Even here in the open-minded Bay Area, I've been called a "white *****" in the predominantly black area I live in, and some black women make it known that they do not like the fact that I'm dating a black man. Idiot racists calling themselves "The New Black Panther Party" have made their anti-white sentiments well known around here.

Yup, one more reason not to be racist --- we're all idiots in one way or another, regardless of the color of our skin, the religion we do or don't practice, what country we come from, or how tall we are. However, I must say those hermaphrodite Samoan anorexic worshipers of giant yellow artichokes creep me out and I wouldn't want MY Border Collie/Golden Retriever mutt marrying one!

[Idaho]

Agreeing with deeptrance, Couer d'Alene has traditionally been a more liberal, forward thinking community. Moscow might also be right up there, as it is a college town, and professors/students tend to have a bigger world view than some? Just my two-cents worth, from 40+ years observation and love of North Idaho in general.

[sultresweetie]

Originally Posted by deeptrance

Oh, they're still running those re-runs of documentaries about the place that make it look like the whole area is hopping with White Supremacists! I'm glad to hear that it's improving.

Just some info about the lawsuit that Bankrupted the KKK in Hayden Lake:

By David Foster, Associated Press, published in The Boston Globe
Thursday, May 24, 2001

Hayden Lake, Idaho - With the crunch of splintering timbers, a watchtower that for years stood guard over the Aryan Nations headquarters came tumbling down, to the delight of human-rights activists who now own the compound.
Moderator cut: Provide a link instead of copying everything here, please

[meejmom]

Originally Posted by deeptrance

What type of snobs? Ski bums? "New Age" rich people from cities who don't understand country living? Some of those isolated hip mountain towns can be pretty out-of-touch with reality. Telluride, CO, is like that to me. I love the fact that I can hear African music on the radio and get a great cappuccino there, but after about 2 hours of seeing nothing but coffeehouses, cute over-priced shops, and people riding expensive bikes around wearing expensive designer bike gear, I was ready to wallow in pig slop on an Arkansas hog farm just to wash the elitism off me!

that's hilarious! i almost died laughing.

[deeptrance]

Thanks, meejmom! I'm glad I got ya gigglin'.

I still don't think anyone answered the original question about "what kind of snobbishness" they were referring to way back when I first posted that. There are so many variations on the word "snob." To me, it could simply mean anyone who doesn't welcome outsiders or people who are different from them. They're exclusive and cliquish. A bar full of insular rednecks could be considered snobbish but the more common meaning applies to those of higher socioeconomic status looking down their noses at the lower classes. It's hard to imagine the latter happening much in Idaho, except in wealthy enclaves like Sun Valley.

[deeptrance]

Originally Posted by sultresweetie

...With the crunch of splintering timbers, a watchtower that for years stood guard over the Aryan Nations headquarters came tumbling down, to the delight of human-rights activists who now own the compound.

What delightful words to read...

I remember that story but I didn't connect the dots to the Hayden compound.

In spite of the headquarters being obliterated, that doesn't mean that there wouldn't be a sizable smattering of neo-Nazi sympathizers still lingering in the region, eh? It's just intuitively reasonable to think that such a predominantly white area would be attractive to people who want to be around white people exclusively. Hence, my guess is that there's a fair amount of racism even if it's not as overt as it used to be. If I'm wrong, then that's great!

[sultresweetie]

Originally Posted by deeptrance

What delightful words to read...

I remember that story but I didn't connect the dots to the Hayden compound.

In spite of the headquarters being obliterated, that doesn't mean that there wouldn't be a sizable smattering of neo-Nazi sympathizers still lingering in the region, eh? It's just intuitively reasonable to think that such a predominantly white area would be attractive to people who want to be around white people exclusively. Hence, my guess is that there's a fair amount of racism even if it's not as overt as it used to be. If I'm wrong, then that's great!

I don't find that to be all true when it comes to demographics in our country. If it were simply seeking out their own kind that made hate groups flourish, we wouldn't have the problems we have in the South. Traveling in the South with my black family is a whole other world from the North West, even though I do admit that Idaho is conservative and white. There is a different climate steeped in history that makes racism palpable in the Southern states, where you can practice hate on your own neighbor. When I lived in Eugene, Oregon, it was the whitest community I have ever lived in (more so than Idaho), but definitely the most tolerant as well.

Even though the LDS church has their own dispicable history of racism, I find that they for the most part change or schedule their "revelations" with the social conscience of the rest of the country. The Book of Mormon has been revised and rewritten to exclude many practices that wouldn't be acceptable in these changing times. You'll have to ask a Mormon if they still practice discrimination against blacks in some way, whether it's excluding them from clergy or their idea of the after-life, but they do not teach that people with dark skin are the descendants of Cain anymore, and haven't since the civil rights era. For the most part, the lack of history with race, and the "live and let live" attitude of the church makes people turned off by the type of radical behavior hate groups need to flourish. I'm not going to say that they don't exist at all, but they won't be having any lynching parties anytime soon.

I did hear that they had a Birthday party/rally for Butler a few years ago, and about 75 people showed up from whatever rock they crawled out from under. The Militant types like their seclusion, and don't want to do anything to draw attention to themselves. I think they more or less choose the area for the seclusion than the white faces, because it isn't about just being white, it's sharing their mindset. If you ask a native from the Hayden Lake area, they will most likely tell you that they were terrorized by the Aryans, and their down fall was that they couldn't keep to themselves.

Basically, I find this same problem anywhere I go, even here in California with idiots blaming a race for some negative issue, and people have the right to flap their trap about whatever nonsense they manage to rationalize, but truthfully, I'm more concerned with my black child's welfare here in CA than I am in ID. He is more likely to end up being a victim of violence and discrimination in the Bay Area than he will ever experience in Blackfoot. There is a very serious climate of self-loathing in poor, black neighborhoods. Even the biggest loudmouth Aryan couldn't do the damage that young black men and women are doing to themselves here. I hear the 'N' word everyday, as well as the 'N' mentality of violence, crime and drug abuse. Aryans only wish they could have as much negative influence.

[deeptrance]

Originally Posted by sultresweetie

f it were simply seeking out their own kind that made hate groups flourish, we wouldn't have the problems we have in the South. Traveling in the South with my black family is a whole other world from the North West, even though I do admit that Idaho is conservative and white. There is a different climate steeped in history that makes racism palpable in the Southern states, where you can practice hate on your own neighbor. When I lived in Eugene, Oregon, it was the whitest community I have ever lived in (more so than Idaho), but definitely the most tolerant as well.

I've been corresponding with someone who is about to visit Eugene and I sent her the above comments. Left you anonymous but gave her the tip about which thread I took them from. You said exactly what she seems to want to know. Being white, I will NEVER know what it feels like to be anyone else. Just as none of us can know the experiences of another regardless of all our similarities. The closest we can get to truly knowing another is to have an identical twin. Aside from that, it's amazing how well we can empathize and communicate given the fact that we all have unique, complex, internal consciousness and we have no direct access to the experiences of others. Thanks for your comments!

[izzy]

Originally Posted by sultresweetie

I don't find that to be all true when it comes to demographics in our country. If it were simply seeking out their own kind that made hate groups flourish, we wouldn't have the problems we have in the South. Traveling in the South with my black family is a whole other world from the North West, even though I do admit that Idaho is conservative and white. There is a different climate steeped in history that makes racism palpable in the Southern states, where you can practice hate on your own neighbor. When I lived in Eugene, Oregon, it was the whitest community I have ever lived in (more so than Idaho), but definitely the most tolerant as well.

Even though the LDS church has their own dispicable history of racism, I find that they for the most part change or schedule their "revelations" with the social conscience of the rest of the country. The Book of Mormon has been revised and rewritten to exclude many practices that wouldn't be acceptable in these changing times. You'll have to ask a Mormon if they still practice discrimination against blacks in some way, whether it's excluding them from clergy or their idea of the after-life, but they do not teach that people with dark skin are the descendants of Cain anymore, and haven't since the civil rights era. For the most part, the lack of history with race, and the "live and let live" attitude of the church makes people turned off by the type of radical behavior hate groups need to flourish. I'm not going to say that they don't exist at all, but they won't be having any lynching parties anytime soon.

I remember when I lived in Virgina back in the early 70's in a small town. I was very surprised...being born and raised in CA...the mind set of not only the white folks but also the blacks.

Example: One night I was pushing my stroller with my son in it across a street in the crosswalks. A black couple driving an older model car almost didn't stop. In CA the couple would have waved and maybe said sorry out the window.

But this couple got out of the car and started saying sorry miss. They acted all worried and kept looking at the ground and then back up again. They seemed very tense.

This by it's self would appear not to be a big deal...but in this town I noticed that even in the 70's the blacks lived on the poor side of town. Some in abandoned appt. buildings that had the windows boarded up. Some had no electric but they did have an oil drum at the back of the modest homes for heating. None of the activities in town that whites attended...did you see any blacks.

So different from where I grew up...in the CA bay area. Blacks there were and are very comfortable around whites and go where they please. As it should be.

When I was growing up back in the early 60's my step father...who was born and raised in West Virginia was such a shock to me. We lived in a poor neighborhood. I was one of three white students in my 1st grade class. I saw nothing wrong with and didn't think much of the skin color of the kids around me. We just played like all kids played. But one day a black student came to play with me at my house. My step dad. Was very upset. He wouldn't invite him in and told me never to invite a black kid to our house again.

When I got married at the age of 17 my step father said if we invited our black friends too our wedding he would not pay for it or the reception. This was a hard thing to battle since my first husband was from the poor part of oakland and many of his friends were black.

So we didn't invite our black friends and we never forgot why we couldn't. My step father was so engrained in the south culture. That he actually believed that blacks had smaller skulls and brains. I could never convince him that his thinking was so wrong and not acceptable.

But I think his lifestyle and comments were typical of the south in that era.
You are right, no western state would ever have the deep rooted racism that has been passed through so many generations in the south.

But here is a view from the other side of the fence. A couple of years ago we were in the adoption process and were looking at a sib. group of black children. We were told we could not adopt them because we are white. That we had no idea how to care for their skin or their hair and we have no idea of their culture and therefore were not suitable. Mind you these kids spent another year in foster care before they disappeared from the adoption list.

In our home they would have been loved, had a mormon up bringing, would have attended great schools in the country town we live in and had every chance to have a wonderful life, just like our bio kids. We ended up adopting a sib. group of half hispanic kids. Their hertiage hasn't been a issue at all.

Izzy

[izzy]

Hi everyone. I thought about my last post, last night...and although I was very honest and gave more personal info. than I normally would do. I felt this morning that disclosing how my step father was...may have offended someone. I really hope I did not offend anyone. I read sultresweetie's post and felt I knew what she meant about the south. After experiencing being brought up by a southerner from the old school.

MY personal beliefs are totally different from my step fathers...in fact his ways have made me very sensitive to the issue of racism. Even when adopting we made it clear we were looking at all ethnic groups of children.

Imagine my surprise when I ran into racism against whites. During the adoption process. Racism can be anywhere against any ethnic group...including whites. But the south is very different from anywhere else...as I stated in my last post.

What I didn't cover was the lds question. Our biggest growing membership ethnic groups are African Americans in Africa and South America. Our church is growing like wild fire in those countries. To learn more about it. Check out the lds website and do a search on the subject.

Well got to go. Again...I'm sorry if my straight forward no frills comments have offended anyone. Merry Xmas one and all.

Izzy