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20 to 40 acres are plenty if you want to grow your own hay for your goats and horses, but you will need a tractor, and a minimum of a plow, a hay cutter and a baler if you plan to grow hay.
More importantly, you will have to have a reliable source of irrigation water. That means you will either need to find a place that has water rights with a canal system, or you'll have to drill a well and need a sprinkler system for irrigation.
Canals let out their water on schedules; to irrigate, the farmer uses syphon tubes which go into the canal, loops over the top of the bank and trails out on the property. Flood irrigation is an all day job when your water comes down the local diversion ditch from the feeder canal. If you're gone on the day you have the water, the next guy down the line gets your turn, but the irrigation itself is pretty simple; all you have to do is shovel a little dirt around to make sure all the field gets proper water.
But if you take too much, there will be a fight with the someone else on your ditch. And you have to watch others, because they'll take your water if they can get away with it.
If you have to drill a well, you may not be able to use the water on demand either. It all depends on who owns the water rights to the property you buy. Some land is adjudicated, some is not. Land that is adjudicated as a first right, second right, and so on. Sprinkling can be done by several ways, from simple hand-carried linear aluminum pipes that click together, each with rain bird sprinkler heads mounted on the tops, to automatic linears, which can use gravity to move the pipes. Circular sprinkling systems use electricity to move around a well in a large circle.
Any of all is going to need to be considered, and all cost a lot of money. The alternatives are to buy the hay, which can run into $2,000 plus a ton, or it may be possible to pay a neighbor to grow your hay with his equipment.
The goats, rabbits and horses will all need the hay to eat all winter. Goats can eat slightly lower quality hay than horses and rabbits. All must also be fed some amount of oats and/or barley to thrive. Better quality hay makes the goat milk taste better. A typical winter here would require you to put up about 4 tons of hay for what you describe. You will also need grain for the chickens and to supplement the bigger critter's feed.
Hay can be purchased, but by no later than February, you would need to have enough hay on hand to last until mid-April at the minimum. If the winter hangs on later than that, you could watch all your big livestock starving, as the hay becomes all sold off and the grass and alfalfa needs time to come up and get started before the fields can be grazed.
Hobby farming is a ton of work year round. Varying livestock like you want will chain you down, as each type of critter has it's own demands. In this country, essentially 20 acres of a 40 acre place will be devoted to raising feed, and the other half to grazing. 11 of the 20 farm acres will need to be rested or rotated with another crop, depending on water availability. All the feed crops have to be plowed up and re-seeded on varying yearly schedules.
Any farm will have to be fenced to hold your livestock. Goat fencing costs much more than barbed wire, which is sufficient for horses. Rabbit hutches and chicken coops will need to be built, maintained and cleaned. Your milk goats will need to be bred yearly to produce milk, so you will need to find sales for the kids, and will have to nurse them yourself if you plan on selling any milk.
Any place out here demands winter shelter for all your livestock. Add the costs of wind sheds at a minimum to keep your goats and horses. In a snowy winter, doing the chores will take up half a day every day at the minimum.
Maybe I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. I hope so, because I've seen a bunch of intended hobby farms that turned into overgrown weed patches after a couple of years after the buyers realized they had gotten themselves into more than they anticipated. If your place becomes a weed patch, the county weed abatement crew will come out and kill the weeds, but they'll charge you for it.
If you haven't ever farmed before, 51 is a late age to start learning. As a single man, you will be very busy all year round. Farming can bite a beginner in the butt very hard, very fast.
If you scale back your plan to 3 acres max, and plan a big varied garden with possibly a berry patch and a few fruit trees, drop the goats and horses, you could probably take care of the place with a small tractor and a couple of implements, with no need to fence the entire place. Greenhouses are their own thing, and they require year-round attention, but at an acre or two, you would still have enough spare time to continue your present work from home.
In general, the more scenic a spot is, the worse the farm ground will be. There are many valid reasons why one sees old abandoned houses and barns in the prettiest places. Most of those folks learned the hard way that living on the edge of wilderness and forests doesn't make a good farmstead.
I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but it seems you may be thinking of biting off more than you can chew.
If not, then I'm sure you will find a way to make what you truly want the most to happen. There are always many ways any determined person can find to make a dream come true, especially if the dream has a person's full commitment behind it.
A very good post, BanjoMike. One thing I slightly disagree with you about for irrigation, but don't know how this is throughout the entire state.
I don't know anyone who waters acres of land with the "flood method." Hand moved pipes are the lowest level I know and most use pivots.
The OP had quite the list. I wonder how many can actually be done given state and federal regs about land, locating enough property, purchasing or leasing farming equipment for hay and other plus other wants.
Water is a big issue when one grows crops for feed. And to the OP, I'm sure you know crops are rotated on purpose. One can't grow grain on the same land each year. Finding the correct crop rotation if you grow 40-50 acres is very important.
Good luck, I hope you find the right place for you (OP).
A very good post, BanjoMike. One thing I slightly disagree with you about for irrigation, but don't know how this is throughout the entire state.
I don't know anyone who waters acres of land with the "flood method." Hand moved pipes are the lowest level I know and most use pivots.
The OP had quite the list. I wonder how many can actually be done given state and federal regs about land, locating enough property, purchasing or leasing farming equipment for hay and other plus other wants.
Water is a big issue when one grows crops for feed. And to the OP, I'm sure you know crops are rotated on purpose. One can't grow grain on the same land each year. Finding the correct crop rotation if you grow 40-50 acres is very important.
Good luck, I hope you find the right place for you (OP).
MSR
Flood irrigation is still being used everywhere in the Snake River Valley on small acreages that have canal access. The number of acres is probably declining as new subdivisions are once again going up and removing those lands from farming.
It's best use is on small acreages; before the advent of deep water well irrigation, there were always large spots in a flood irrigated large field what didn't get enough water, or too much, and it always caused erosion problems in fields with swales or were hilly. A lot was always wasted in pooled run-off, too.
The sprinkler systems now in use on the big fields is remarkable sophisticated. Air and soil humidity are now tested by computers right on top of the pipes, and gps locators can now adjust the rate of water delivery, speed of the pipe's movement over the field, and micro-regulate the best use of electricity at each well's pump. The electric rates are cheaper during late night/early morning hours, which may also be the best times to irrigate, and everything can be monitored from a farmer's house with a lot more automation happening.
There are also sophisticated advancements in dry land farming. No-till grain fields now consistently bring in higher crop production with much less moisture wastage, and the latest no-till equipment is also computerized so the seeds are delivered at the best depth, at the best rate and the best speed for maximum germination and production.
Modern tractors are a lot like modern cars. They have similar computerized dashboards with connections for the implement's computers, have built in gps, and display the best possible ways to till a particular field. And they are now commonly air-conditioned, quiet in their cabs, and can receive satellite TV, radio, and cell phones.
They are also much more comfortable to sit in all day, and much, much cleaner as a work environment. There are air filtration outlets, fans that provide positive air pressure to keep the dust out, and polarized glass that adjusts to cut down the glare. A farmer today can walk away from his field after a 12 hour day with his clothing about as clean as when he put it on in the morning. They even come with coffee makers built in that double as cold drink dispensers. A laptop can be clipped into a holder so records and all other info can be seen instantly, and a farmer can send email while he's working.
Their engines are just as sophisticated, too. They use less fuel than ever before while accomplishing more work. And they all require less service and upkeep while lasting far longer than ever before as well.
All of it costs a fortune, but it all pays off big. Crops have never been planted, tilled and harvested faster than now, with less wasted produce, less damage to the produce, and less depletion of the soil than ever.
The United States is now farming far less ground than ever while consistently growing larger crops using far fewer people. 2 people can now accomplish what once took 10 or more, and the days spent working the fields can now have longer hours with much less exhaustion.
The tradeoff is money. A good combine cost about as much as 2 new trucks 40 years ago, but a top of the line large combine can now run to almost $750,000 dollars, depending on what crops are harvested.
Pretty amazing stuff.
Back when my family was dry farming, we had about 3100 acres of wheat fields in the foothills above I.F. and northward, toward Ririe.
Most of it was sagebrush when my family first homesteaded the land. Some was purchased later from family members who sold out in the 20s and 30s.
My great-grandfather and my grandmother did most of the homesteading; back then, a home that was occupied was required to qualify for homesteading, and my grandma had a small log cabin on skids she lived in. Her dad did most of the farming. The cabin would be pulled to the next piece over after one piece proved up.
She lived alone until she married my grandfather. Rode a horse to the schoolhouse where she taught about 12 miles away every winter, and could shoot the eye out of a bird at 50 yards with a pistol with either hand. Nobody ever messed with her.
Her 7 sisters were just like her… they all did the same, except for the school teaching. 180 acres at a time.
She began at 17. By 27, she had herself a farm, and so did all of her sisters.
In my grandfather's day, bringing in a wheat crop demanded the use of 2 Caterpillar tractors pulling 2 huge combines, each requiring 2-3 men as operators, and at least 4 trucks. A typical harvest crew was around 12-18 men.
The Cats were a big improvement over the 20-horse teams needed to pull the early combines.
My great-grandfather once employed 2 men whose only job was harnessing and feeding over 200 draft horses daily, year round. At his peak, he employed 100 men year round, 100 years ago.
In my time farming, the combines were far faster and self-powered, so no more tractors. The trucks were larger and faster, so only 2 combines and 2-3 trucks were needed. 4 men. Harvesting took about 45 days.
Nowadays, that same ground can be harvested with one combine and one semi, pulling a bottom-dump trailer. 2 guys, in less than 1/3 the time needed before, with bigger harvests than ever before.
I didn't have time to read through all of the responses, but I own land and have run hundreds of thousands of tons of hay, and grain for several decades in northern Utah. Ironically I am your same age, and I am not a farmer. I just hire some one with the equipment to manage the land, and I have never owned a tractor for hay. There are many options for hiring people to cut and bail it for you with their equipment. I let them take enough of the product that it doesn't cost me anything, and they even pay me a little depending on the yield. North Idaho gets a lot of rain, even a good bit in the summer time, so dry farming is not only possible, it is how many do it. If you live on the land (which I did not) you could actually raise enough hay for yourself, and sell the rest which would cover your expenses. In my opinion there are many places that would fit your needs, but you are going to have to do your home work and be patient for the right property. Boise is not an option for dry farming hay. You would definitely need water. It gets way hotter there in the summer, and has way less rain than the north. It is also possible to find places that have cable internet. We had Hughes net and just recently Time Warner cable came through and hooked us up. Fast internet, and cheap in comparison. There is also a lot of land that people do nothing with, and are willing in some cases to let their weed patches be managed and harvested by other people, and turned back into viable land. The ag. exemption drops the property taxes by roughly 2/3ds. But you do have to actually be farming it, or have at least 5 cows.
A very good post, BanjoMike. One thing I slightly disagree with you about for irrigation, but don't know how this is throughout the entire state.
I don't know anyone who waters acres of land with the "flood method." Hand moved pipes are the lowest level I know and most use pivots.
The OP had quite the list. I wonder how many can actually be done given state and federal regs about land, locating enough property, purchasing or leasing farming equipment for hay and other plus other wants.
Water is a big issue when one grows crops for feed. And to the OP, I'm sure you know crops are rotated on purpose. One can't grow grain on the same land each year. Finding the correct crop rotation if you grow 40-50 acres is very important.
Good luck, I hope you find the right place for you (OP).
Yup MSR That is why I mentioned grain, and hay, as you do have to rotate the crop, and let the land sit for a season every seven years or so. If you have enough land you just divide into seven sections. That way one section gets a rest every year, and you don't go without for a whole year every seven. Last year was a bumper crop for dry farm hay in NID BTW. The timing of the rain, and the milder than normal late fall.
The OP is from New York. One big difference from there and idaho is the respect of someone else's property. New Yorkers live in small personal spaces and therefore, respect the boundary that defines that space. Idaho is filled with a population that thinks it can stomp all over the place. I think this is because there is so much public owned land but I'm not sure. The hunters will be the worst offenders.
I want to thank everyone for their replies. They are all greatly appreciated. Special thanks to banjomike for providing invaluable information via dms and for opening up SE Idaho for me. Initially when considering Idaho as a destination to settle down in, I looked at Swan Valley and surrounding areas, but moved away from them without getting feedback from anyone on this forum which was a mistake.
I also want to thank f5stop for breaking it down dollars and cents wise. He brought up a couple of points that beneficially impact my folks, which I'll need in order to present as strong a case as possible for them to seriously consider ID.
One thing I noticed is that there appears to be an abundance of inventory of properties with many being listed for over 300 days and some for over 900 days. Is this a matter of not enough demand or is the overriding factor the economy? Neither? Both? Just to be clear I only checked Island Park, Ashton, I.F., Pocatello and Victor.
I am way out of my depth here as I know very little on these topics, but I was looking to buy a house and found wilderness ranch near boise online. You might want to look at it. It is an enclave of acreage properties near some state forest, pretty close to boise. Most with fences. My husband got a gleam in his eye when I showed him. But no way for me, ever! Steep dirt road, scary!
Also if you are single and have so much money, you should probably find a wife (-:
I am way out of my depth here as I know very little on these topics, but I was looking to buy a house and found wilderness ranch near boise online. You might want to look at it. It is an enclave of acreage properties near some state forest, pretty close to boise. Most with fences. My husband got a gleam in his eye when I showed him. But no way for me, ever! Steep dirt road, scary!
Thank you, this sounds interesting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aisling123
Also if you are single and have so much money, you should probably find a wife (-:
I see you've been talking to my mother
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