Well that was interesting... (2015, living in, dangerous)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
WRONG! In fact, outside of a few states, New Jersey, Maryland, Connecticut, you can carry a firearm for self-defense on the "East Coast", even in most of the very liberal Northeast, you are allowed to carry a firearm for self-defense. That would even include, New York (if you are a resident of the state).
Bear spray on a moose can be effective, but it is not nearly as effective as on a bear and a charging and mad moose with 50mph head wind may leave you in dire straits..
A 9mm would be good if you want to put yourself out of your own misery after being stomped silly by the moose and needing to euthanize yourself. Anything less than a 44 magnum on any moose is a very risky proposition. They are very large, fast and agile animals and you better have a good quality lead or at very least JSP round loaded, as penetrating the hide/bone on an animal that size is not always easy.
Even a 44 magnum is no guarantee you will take a big mean bull moose down when its charging you. Ideally, you would want a high caliber rifle or a shotgun loaded with 12 ga slugs..
That's where my Ruger .454 casull comes in. With a 460 gn hammerhead, that will do the trick. Only as a last result of course.
Old-timers swore by big bullets with less gunpowder behind them than the magnum calibers these days. The magnums are excellent for long range, but poking a hole through a moose may not stop it.
The .44-40 stopped a lot of the biggest animals out here, and the .30-30 is still a popular game rifle, especially for hunting in timber. It's still hard to beat the 30.06 for all-round hunting versatility too.
Just sayin', as I've never shot a moose. I have shot my Grand-dad's .44-40 though, and it sure dropped a pretty good-sized bull elk down flat many years ago with one shot. The range has to be a lot closer, but those big, slow-moving bullets sure pack a massive concussive wallop.
A recently deceased friend of mine once killed an enormous black bear with a .44 mag pistol years ago at close range. He shot the bear in the head. When the guys he was with went looking for the bullet, they were amazed to find it had not penetrated the bear's skull, but it did fracture the skull.
It was found underneath the skin on the opposite side of the skull. It had flattened to the size of a silver dollar and had circled the head underneath the skin. The concussion of the impact killed the bear.
It was a good thing, too. My buddy had gone along on the hunting trip just to enjoy the trip. He didn't bring a gun of his own, as he only planned to be a driver and the camp cook, and had dropped his pals off on a scout and drove the truck they were in down the road a couple of miles to pick them up later.
The group he was with had been looking for that particular bear for a couple of years prior, but could never find him. He was a big boar who always came out early, and they had a special permit for him. The boar had taken to killing new-born calves locally when he came out of hibernation, and had gotten very good at avoiding hunters.
My buddy had just gotten out of the truck to stretch when the bear came thrashing through the timber by the side of the road, and came straight at him from close range. One of the others had left the pistol on the truck seat, and he had just enough time to get it out and fire a single shot at about 10 yards. The bear staggered off a couple of feet and dropped.
Last edited by banjomike; 11-13-2016 at 02:46 PM..
The biggest concern for dogs off leash in the forest is becoming ensnared in traps. I see those stories in the paper. I often come across moose on a dog walk (leashed) and we either turn around or give the moose wide berth with no problems. Carrying a weapon is a given since it is IDAHO after all!
Wow! Thanks for the heads up on traps! I never would have thought of that being an issue. I've so much to learn about life in ID.
WRONG! In fact, outside of a few states, New Jersey, Maryland, Connecticut, you can carry a firearm for self-defense on the "East Coast", even in most of the very liberal Northeast, you are allowed to carry a firearm for self-defense. That would even include, New York (if you are a resident of the state).
Maryland resident - nuf said
Bear spray on a moose can be effective, but it is not nearly as effective as on a bear and a charging and mad moose with 50mph head wind may leave you in dire straits..
Good to know. Gonna need bear spray.
A 9mm would be good if you want to put yourself out of your own misery after being stomped silly by the moose and needing to euthanize yourself. Anything less than a 44 magnum on any moose is a very risky proposition. They are very large, fast and agile animals and you better have a good quality lead or at very least JSP round loaded, as penetrating the hide/bone on an animal that size is not always easy.
Thanks for the 9mm euthanasia idea.
Even a 44 magnum is no guarantee you will take a big mean bull moose down when its charging you. Ideally, you would want a high caliber rifle or a shotgun loaded with 12 ga slugs..
Raised in the East with guns for hunting or sport. Home invasion not considered an issue, so never felt a need for protection. Going to be interesting to carry for protection. We do have an occasional moose, bear & cougar on the property.
This is a question/situation that I've been pondering. I have a black lab and we hike 3-5 miles most every day here on the East Coast. We're fortunate to have some great "parks" locally with lakes, ponds and mountains to explore. The only risk to us is deer ticks and yes I've had lyme disease. Even dogs vaccinated against lyme can get it. No need to "carry" and it is illegal here on the east coast to do so. We only encounter deer, squirrels & beaver.
What would you recommend to someone who wants to get out and explore NI with their dog who is 99% off leash, I only leash up if I find someone who is leery of a goofy well behaved lab. I will be not far from you in the Edgemere area, National Forest across the road, Long Mountain and Hoo Doo Mt, creek and lake to explore. My dog wears a safety vest for visibility.
What do most people do? Carry a 9mm (got one)? Bear spray? Does bear spray work on moose? How best to keep a dog safe? Do people carry/wear bear bells? Should a dog wear one?
I'd like to hear what you all recommend.
How are the ticks in NI! They've been terrible here lately! I've had 2 tick bites in the past 3 weeks.
I like biking too! That's another situation to ponder.
Sorry I rambled on! I was pondering the same situation you experienced and what to do just this morning
Be Safe!
Off leash with a dog in Idaho can provide for an interesting outcome: not only snare traps, but wolves, coyotes, polecats (skunks), porcupines, anything with antlers. Visibility vest aside, shooting dogs who've been known to get into livestock is legal here, a ranch hand might not now your Lab from the Lab that just took out half his stock.
Off leash with a dog in Idaho can provide for an interesting outcome: not only snare traps, but wolves, coyotes, polecats (skunks), porcupines, anything with antlers. Visibility vest aside, shooting dogs who've been known to get into livestock is legal here, a ranch hand might not now your Lab from the Lab that just took out half his stock.
You forgot to mention cow pies and other manure, and dead critters. Dogs love to roll in all of them, the stinkier the better. It's amazing how fast a dog can find fresh manure to roll in, especially in places where you can't wash them off. Driving back home with a poop-covered dog is an experience I'm sure most folks would be very happy to pass on.
2 loose dogs are 2 loose dogs. 3 dogs is a pack, and a pack always gets into trouble if the dogs aren't used to being off-leash all the time.
Most folks don't shoot loose dogs, as a dog shooter is despised in all the small places where dogs are still as much working partners as pets. But that doesn't mean a loose dog is tolerated, either; stockmen all know a dozen ways to run a dog off without shooting it and all make it so unpleasant for the dog it's not likely to return.
And stock growers have little tolerance for strangers who let their dogs run loose all the time. An owner can face some big legal trouble when Fido packs up with Fifi and Scout and goes after some lambs in the corral down the road. Or some calves, piglets, or any other critter.
A calf is $500 on the hoof for the owner, a calf ready for market $1,000 or more, and someone will pay for a dog-killed calf. When a vet is called out to save an injured animal, the dog's owner gets that bill too, and other civil penalties on top of it all. Every county has laws on loose dogs, and all the laws favor the folks who suffer damage, not the dog owners.
Letting out your dogs to frolic in the pasture without you is where the damage always starts. Once a dog knows where the holes are in the fence, they can get into immense trouble in the wink of an eye.
You forgot to mention cow pies and other manure, and dead critters. Dogs love to roll in all of them, the stinkier the better. It's amazing how fast a dog can find fresh manure to roll in, especially in places where you can't wash them off. Driving back home with a poop-covered dog is an experience I'm sure most folks would be very happy to pass on.
2 loose dogs are 2 loose dogs. 3 dogs is a pack, and a pack always gets into trouble if the dogs aren't used to being off-leash all the time.
Most folks don't shoot loose dogs, as a dog shooter is despised in all the small places where dogs are still as much working partners as pets. But that doesn't mean a loose dog is tolerated, either; stockmen all know a dozen ways to run a dog off without shooting it and all make it so unpleasant for the dog it's not likely to return.
And stock growers have little tolerance for strangers who let their dogs run loose all the time. An owner can face some big legal trouble when Fido packs up with Fifi and Scout and goes after some lambs in the corral down the road. Or some calves, piglets, or any other critter.
A calf is $500 on the hoof for the owner, a calf ready for market $1,000 or more, and someone will pay for a dog-killed calf. When a vet is called out to save an injured animal, the dog's owner gets that bill too, and other civil penalties on top of it all. Every county has laws on loose dogs, and all the laws favor the folks who suffer damage, not the dog owners.
Letting out your dogs to frolic in the pasture without you is where the damage always starts. Once a dog knows where the holes are in the fence, they can get into immense trouble in the wink of an eye.
Needless say, this post covers it all. I agree, a pet on the loose is a pet in peril, period.
Raised in the East with guns for hunting or sport. Home invasion not considered an issue, so never felt a need for protection. Going to be interesting to carry for protection. We do have an occasional moose, bear & cougar on the property.
I understand you Kayaker.. Glad you escaped Maryland.. Welcome to America, Mr. O'Malley's laws don't apply here
If you live in an area with lots of dangerous wildlife, you seriously need to invest in the "Big Bore" rounds .. Many people under-estimate how dangerous and hard to kill these larger animals are.. Obviously, getting attacked is not common, but if you are rubbing elbows (or hooves) with these creatures you need to have adequate protection. Bear spray is very ineffective in areas with a lot of headwind or strong wind drifts, for example, Glacier National Park. Ironically, they advertise people to carry it, but it is as good as useless on many trails due to the heavy wind of the area.
BanjoMike, some more cool stories as usual I always enjoy reading them..
As far as the comment about the 44 mag not penetrating a bear skull, I will say that a heavy 44 mag lead flat nose round will probably go through just about any black bear skull and most grizzly.. The skull of a bear has a considerable amount armor and as most hunters would say, it is the last place you should attempt to shoot a bear because of how strong and thick the skulls are. However, many people make the mistake of using a hollow point round or some other more frangible or expanding round in a large animal and between the hide and density of the bone, it reduces the energy of the round considerably.
Hard and heavy rounds have the advantage of having a lot of kinetic energy; but slower rounds sometimes lack penetration power. A fast and heavy round with the right bullet and load will result in a deeper wound cavity and more likely hit vital organs..
Obviously, a large animal like moose or brown bear should be killed with a rifle. A handgun is more of a "OH S**T, G-D SAVE ME!" type of gun.
I plan on carrying my S&W 460 loaded with Buffalo Bore 360gr LFN rounds when I go hiking in Alaska in the (hopefully) near future.
Here are the ballistics:
Out of a 7.5in barrel the 360gr round travels at 1,900fps and has an energy of 2,860 ft/lbs
That is a very powerful handgun round and on par with moderate size rifle rounds, like .308 or 30-06.
A .308win would be the minimum rifle round I would want to use on a grizzly bear or a moose.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That's where a .454
(if you are a resident of the state).
I always enjoy reading them.. 
