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Old 01-31-2011, 08:24 AM
 
4,486 posts, read 6,131,013 times
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Looks pretty much like wolves are supposed to do. If these were supposed to be shocking....uh...not so much.
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Old 01-31-2011, 03:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHAdams View Post
I am surprised that buffalo farming is not encouraged. Buffalo meat is healthier and buffalo are more efficient than cattle. But then we are talking government.....
This is exactly what I'd like to do if/when I move to the mountain west. Speaking as someone who grew up on a farm, I can tell you that any species which can drive you to ruin very shortly is at best a nuisance. Starling are an example. Wolves are another.

I'd like to think a herd of buffalo would stand up better to a wolfpack than a herd of cattle or sheep, but I've also seen and heard of instances of wolves just killing sheep left and right and leaving them for dead. It's hard enough farming now with escalating property taxes thanks to tract homes on stamp-sized plots and a population growing (in my estimation) far too quickly. Once these elk are gone, the wolves are going to want food. It would be very difficult for a rancher to take the kind of hit some of these environmentalists are wanting them to take.

Ranchers are in a predicament, as they ultimately produce land fertile for wildlife and preserve the character of a region far more than the suburbanite. However, they typically tend to butt heads with the environmentalists given that they need to assure the safety of their stock in order to function.

I personally see wolves as an unncessary safety and economic risk. They're not endangered. They do a great deal of damage to at least two major industries in the state. They further limit the ability of locals to provide food off of local lands (by hunting elk and ranching). They no doubt harm pets. At what point do they attack a human? No doubt when that occurs, it will be blamed on the human.
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Old 01-31-2011, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Pueblo, CO
466 posts, read 879,530 times
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We are the only species on this earth that don't create balance and when I read through this threat, I feel sad how ignorant people are still. Wolves normally only kill the old, injured and weak animals. Livestock is easy prey for them. The farmers should invest in guard dogs, like the Great Pyrenees, great for protecting sheep. They were breed to do that. Stop whining how vicious wolves are, they have as much right to live as we are, or the buffalo, elk, grizzly etc. Your are only against them, because you want to hunt what they do, only you go for the healthy once. They (other predators than humans) are a much better service to keep everything in order. We could learn from them, if we want to. But we are to arrogant for that, I guess.
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Old 01-31-2011, 04:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMartel2 View Post
but I've also seen and heard of instances of wolves just killing sheep left and right and leaving them for dead.
I'm curious. Where have you seen it? I've raised sheep here for years and haven't seen it. Maybe the wolves packed their Snoopy suitcases and headed to the wilderness of what? Tennessee?
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Old 01-31-2011, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
25,318 posts, read 16,239,905 times
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There is a slide show here that shows one side of the wolf issue: Slide Show.

I'm pretty neutral. I have seen a freshly killed elk, where the only thing eaten from the cow was the fetus. Nothing else touched. I don't want to see them eliminated, however, I do think that management through controlled hunting is essential. Idaho's wolf population has been increasing at greather than 20% per year.
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Old 02-01-2011, 10:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistyriverranch View Post
I'm curious. Where have you seen it? I've raised sheep here for years and haven't seen it. Maybe the wolves packed their Snoopy suitcases and headed to the wilderness of what? Tennessee?
Or maybe Montana. I've been following this issue, as I've been interested in ranching and interested in moving to the mountain west. And we did have (red) wolves here in Tennessee, but they didn't make it. You're fortunate. Again, as the elk population declines, the wolves will seek food. Or sport. I hope you're luckier than this rancher:

http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/article_61f0f9de-938e-11de-95d7-001cc4c002e0.html

Quote:
Dillon-area family loses 120 animals in attacks

Wolves Devestate ranchers' sheep

She and her husband, Jon, immediately called officials with the Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks, which sent out a federal trapper to investigate the scene.

The trapper found numerous carcasses of sheep that had been killed by wolves, said Carolyn Sime, FWP wolf program coordinator. The total included 82 confirmed kills and 40 carcasses that were classified as probable kills, including some that had been eaten by bears. The attack occurred on private land the Konens own.

"That's a lot all in one incident," Sime said.

The sheep were just killed and yet the carcasses were almost all intact, Konen said.

"They didn't eat what they killed, most of them were just brought down," she said. "I don't know whether they were teaching their pups or what."
It's not the first attack that the Konens have had this summer. They lost 26 sheep to wolves in the same pasture in July, she said. After that attack, FWP authorized federal trappers to remove three wolves that had been observed in the area. Trappers shot and killed a gray-coated wolf and shot another black
Rogue Wolf kills dozens of sheep in Massachussetts

Rogue Wolf Kills Dozen Sheep in Massachusetts - Science News | Science & Technology | Technology News - FOXNews.com

In Wyoming:

Sheep and guard dog depredations: From January through August 2009, 3 packs (Big Horn Mtn., Dog Creek, and Black Butte Packs) have killed >152 sheep and 3 guard dogs, compared to 14 sheep killed from January through August in 2008 and 16 sheep killed from January through August in 2007 (Figure 1). The increase in sheep depredations in 2009 is due mainly to 2 new packs that recently formed in areas heavily grazed by domestic sheep. The Big Horn Mtn. Pack (2 adults probably with pups) killed > 70 sheep in June and July. The Dog Creek Pack (4-6 adults with 6 pups) killed >45 sheep and 3 guard dogs in August. The Black Butte Pack existed for the last 2 years and killed >37 sheep and injured 1 guard dog in 2009. Control is ongoing to remove wolves in all of these areas where depredations have continued.

Wolves kill 23 lambs in Oregon (and leave them uneaten) (confirmed with pictures at the link)

http://www.kval.com/news/local/43055822.html

Wolves attack cattle, kill sheep in Central Montana

Wolves attack cattle, kill sheep in central Montana

Two wolves roaming Boise foothills kill 11 sheep

Two wolves roaming Boise Foothills kill 11 sheep | KVAL CBS 13 - News, Weather and Sports - Eugene, OR - Eugene, Oregon | Outdoors

Wolves killed 55 sheep in Idaho in 2003, leave carcasses

Idaho Rancher Cries Wolf

Last edited by CMartel2; 02-01-2011 at 10:36 AM..
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Old 02-01-2011, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Denver
1,788 posts, read 1,865,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kagicre View Post
We are the only species on this earth that don't create balance and when I read through this threat, I feel sad how ignorant people are still. Wolves normally only kill the old, injured and weak animals. Livestock is easy prey for them. The farmers should invest in guard dogs, like the Great Pyrenees, great for protecting sheep. They were breed to do that. Stop whining how vicious wolves are, they have as much right to live as we are, or the buffalo, elk, grizzly etc. Your are only against them, because you want to hunt what they do, only you go for the healthy once. They (other predators than humans) are a much better service to keep everything in order. We could learn from them, if we want to. But we are to arrogant for that, I guess.
Bullcrap. Most predators largely live off of the young who can not keep up with the herd when the predators charge. You are living in the fairy tale land of the typical environmentalist.
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Old 02-01-2011, 10:42 AM
 
4,486 posts, read 6,131,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMartel2 View Post
Or maybe Montana. You're fortunate. Again, as the elk population declines, the wolves will seek food. Or sport. I hope you're luckier than this rancher:
You live in Montana?
Yes, I am fortunate. (Except for the raccoon that got into my chicken coop and went on a killing spree. Talk about killing for fun.)
But I've also slanted the odds in my favor. I keep Great Pyrenees to guard my stock and I don't just expect to live here and have no depradation. I moved into a wild area and it's up to me to keep my stock safe or not whine when I lose a few. It's personal responsibility.
Wolves don't just eat elk, btw...and I seriously doubt we'll have any kind of deer shortage. There's plenty of game out there for them.
There is a buffalo ranch a few miles from me and he's had no issues with predators. Several years ago hunters lost two pack horses to a bull moose in rut and a neighbor of mine lost her stallion to a cougar. Black bears caused us a few problems till we got our dogs.
The wolves have actually been beneficial in that they keep the pesky coyotes away.

I've seen all the articles about wolf predation. Sadly, there really aren't any articles about all the people who have no problems coexisting with predators.
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:02 AM
 
Location: North Idaho
161 posts, read 334,900 times
Reputation: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by kagicre View Post
We are the only species on this earth that don't create balance and when I read through this threat, I feel sad how ignorant people are still. Wolves normally only kill the old, injured and weak animals. Livestock is easy prey for them. The farmers should invest in guard dogs, like the Great Pyrenees, great for protecting sheep. They were breed to do that. Stop whining how vicious wolves are, they have as much right to live as we are, or the buffalo, elk, grizzly etc. Your are only against them, because you want to hunt what they do, only you go for the healthy once. They (other predators than humans) are a much better service to keep everything in order. We could learn from them, if we want to. But we are to arrogant for that, I guess.
wow...ridiculous. Such a blanket statement...sad really. Animal rights = human rights?

Sportsman/hunters have conserved more land and animal habitats in this country than any enviromental group and contribute more resources ($) than all of them combined.

I think having wolves in the area are a good thing. Like mountain lions, bears and other predators. It creates balance, and makes our lives richer for the experiences. But like other predators, we should be able to manage them and in the process collect fees to continue to our conservation efforts for the next generations.
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Old 02-01-2011, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Pueblo, CO
466 posts, read 879,530 times
Reputation: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjkmd View Post
wow...ridiculous. Such a blanket statement...sad really. Animal rights = human rights?

Sportsman/hunters have conserved more land and animal habitats in this country than any enviromental group and contribute more resources ($) than all of them combined.

I think having wolves in the area are a good thing. Like mountain lions, bears and other predators. It creates balance, and makes our lives richer for the experiences. But like other predators, we should be able to manage them and in the process collect fees to continue to our conservation efforts for the next generations.
Yes! Animal rights = human rights! You got a problem that I think we all have the same rights on this planet? Well, I do and I don't think that is sad or ridiculous.
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