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Old 02-05-2011, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Sandpoint, ID
3,109 posts, read 8,959,537 times
Reputation: 2463

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kagicre View Post
Wolves have been here for over a quarter-million years, and for most of that time there were hundreds of thousand of wolves living in this country. If they wiped out their food source by killing "just for fun" like people here in the forum try to make us believe, they would never have survived as a species. But we wiped out the wolves in the US in less than 2 centuries. The wolf has been victimized by myths and fables of such magnitude that the animal became the devil in many eyes. No creature ever has been more stigmatized by men. So what does that tell us? I don't think that any of the so called wolf hater not a lot about the animal itself, just the stigma we made up with our tales.
And here some interesting facts I found on wikipedia: from 1900-2010 114 people in America were attacked by bears, in the same time period 6 people were attacked by wolves, 2 by their own wolf pet.

" We have doomed the wolf, not for what it is, but for what we deliberately and mistakenly perceive it to be" - Farley Mowat, Never Cry Wolf
This thread is not the place for you to press a social/political position from behind a keyboard in Oregon.
1) There is a wolf population in Idaho.
2) There are problems that came with the repopulation.
3) The solutions are polarizing and rather hotly contested.

#3 above is what we're discussing. Save the global animal rights dogma for the political forum. Oh...and the thinly veiled insults at those who don't agree with your reasoning have no place here either.
__________________
Regards,

Sage
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Old 02-06-2011, 06:57 AM
CTC
 
Location: Pagosa Springs, CO/North Port,FL
658 posts, read 1,125,013 times
Reputation: 567
Default CO Elk Herds

CO is known to have the biggest herds of elk (280,000 according to CDOW) with no known wolf population (yet).
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Old 02-09-2011, 11:01 AM
 
Location: North Idaho
161 posts, read 329,296 times
Reputation: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by kagicre View Post
Yes! Animal rights = human rights! You got a problem that I think we all have the same rights on this planet? Well, I do and I don't think that is sad or ridiculous.
Sigh...so you expect the world to become vegan, use no animal by products, stop the use of animals in testing for drugs and therapies etc etc etc. and for those that do not comply, jail time? Trials? Executions for crimes against animal-kind?

I'm not sure why I'm even address you...no way you are gonna see it from our point of view and no way I'm gonna see it from yours.

Oh, and your link is ridiculous. Defenders of the Wild...yes, a legitimate, unbiased, peer reviewed, scientific source...right...(sarcasm implied).
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Old 02-09-2011, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Pueblo, CO
466 posts, read 864,787 times
Reputation: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
An animal rights website. Hardly a legitimate source.
O.k. what is a legitimate source in your opinion?
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Old 02-09-2011, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Pueblo, CO
466 posts, read 864,787 times
Reputation: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage of Sagle View Post
This thread is not the place for you to press a social/political position from behind a keyboard in Oregon.
1) There is a wolf population in Idaho.
2) There are problems that came with the repopulation.
3) The solutions are polarizing and rather hotly contested.

#3 above is what we're discussing. Save the global animal rights dogma for the political forum. Oh...and the thinly veiled insults at those who don't agree with your reasoning have no place here either.
So you can state your opinion, and I can't because I live in Oregon? Wow, that is interesting!!!
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Old 02-09-2011, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Pueblo, CO
466 posts, read 864,787 times
Reputation: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjkmd View Post
Sigh...so you expect the world to become vegan, use no animal by products, stop the use of animals in testing for drugs and therapies etc etc etc. and for those that do not comply, jail time? Trials? Executions for crimes against animal-kind?

I'm not sure why I'm even address you...no way you are gonna see it from our point of view and no way I'm gonna see it from yours.

Oh, and your link is ridiculous. Defenders of the Wild...yes, a legitimate, unbiased, peer reviewed, scientific source...right...(sarcasm implied).
I am not a vegan as vegetarian as I stated somewhere above, when I started to share my opinion. And I don't know why I address you either..... And why should I see it your way, when I believe it isn't any better than my way.
I just think it is strange and sad that the wolf is made such a scapegoat for everything, but in the same time, Americans show such a lot of love for the dog. But then they love the dog, because they often don't see them as dogs, but as four-legged humans with fur. And they through them away in the millions every year, killing them when they put in animal shelters, and nobody wants them anymore.
If animals are no "use" for people, let's kill them, that's what I see here mostly on this forum, but I guess most of you are hunters.
So who is biased here? Aren't we all!
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Old 02-09-2011, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Pueblo, CO
466 posts, read 864,787 times
Reputation: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage of Sagle View Post
This thread is not the place for you to press a social/political position from behind a keyboard in Oregon.
1) There is a wolf population in Idaho.
2) There are problems that came with the repopulation.
3) The solutions are polarizing and rather hotly contested.

#3 above is what we're discussing. Save the global animal rights dogma for the political forum. Oh...and the thinly veiled insults at those who don't agree with your reasoning have no place here either.
So when I am against hunting wolves for the fun or because of what hunters and farmers think of them - because you are the authority - I am wrong?
My opinion is far less political/social than what I read hear from you guys. And you tell me I insult you, because I don't agree with you????? Now, think about that!!!!!
Yes, there are problems with the repopulation of the wolves, I do understand that, but here you and your mates seem to want to "solve" the problem, like you did for centuries - kill it!
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Old 02-09-2011, 12:21 PM
 
Location: On the west side of the Tetons
1,355 posts, read 1,970,062 times
Reputation: 2610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Defenders of Wildlife isn't exactly an unbiased (or scientific) sourcs. They are also the organization that agreed to compensate ranchers for their losses due to wolf depredation. Now that wolf introduction has been successful past anyones wildest dreams, they are refusing to fulfill their end of the bargin.
That's not true, although it's what most people believe. Very few are aware of the new legislation that will provide compensation. Defenders will continue to provide support, monetary and otherwise, during the transition. Then, those resources will be shifted to further improve programs that will help prevent conflict before it occurs. Range riders, turbo-fladry and guard dogs have already proven to be extremely effective. Here's some more information http://www.defenders.org/resources/p...mpensation.pdf

As an Idaho resident and longtime member of Defenders of Wildlife, I frequently write to Congressman Simpson and Senators Crapo and Risch regarding this issue (as well as other issues). The senators clearly don't want to hear from anyone who has an opinion that differs from their own (sorry guys, you don't get to represent only those people who voted for you). However, I have been impressed with Rep. Simpson. While I do not always agree with him, he seems willing to listen and always responds.
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Old 02-09-2011, 06:15 PM
 
5,450 posts, read 8,507,085 times
Reputation: 5253
Quote:
Originally Posted by kagicre View Post
So when I am against hunting wolves for the fun or because of what hunters and farmers think of them - because you are the authority - I am wrong?
My opinion is far less political/social than what I read hear from you guys. And you tell me I insult you, because I don't agree with you????? Now, think about that!!!!!
Yes, there are problems with the repopulation of the wolves, I do understand that, but here you and your mates seem to want to "solve" the problem, like you did for centuries - kill it!
Kagicre,

Sage does have the authority to say what he says, because he is our moderator. I see you've been a member of C-D for a long time, and surely you know that some moderators simply delete posts they think violate the rules. Sage makes a point of explaining what the violation is, and what he told you is that posts here generally have to be Idaho-specific, and yours aren't. It is Idaho's wolf problem that is the topic, and not wolf issues in general. And furthermore, the wolf question easily becomes political, and there is another forum where such posts are appropriate. You'll find that Sage excercizes the same control (mandated by the CD administration) when the issue is something else which generates passionate, political responses, such as gun issues, regardless of his own opinion.

And, by the way, I don't have a dog in this hunt--I normally don't engage in the "wolf-no wolf" discussions. As a part-time Idahoan I personally love the idea of wolf howls in the Idaho night, and I am a supporter of the Sawtooth Pack. But I've had enough conversations with full-time Idahoans to realize that the reintroduction is a complex situation that needs management, that people generally hold views because they have reflected on the situation and not because they just go with knee-jerk answers (in other words, "wolf haters" need not be ignorant of wolves), and negative views on wolves are not exclusively a result of ancient European human-wolf competitor mythologies. If you want your view respected, then extend a little respect to those who hold an opposing point of view, when it's based on research and experience.
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Old 02-16-2011, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Idahodean
21 posts, read 33,776 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by kagicre View Post
So when I am against hunting wolves for the fun or because of what hunters and farmers think of them - because you are the authority - I am wrong?
My opinion is far less political/social than what I read hear from you guys. And you tell me I insult you, because I don't agree with you????? Now, think about that!!!!!
Yes, there are problems with the repopulation of the wolves, I do understand that, but here you and your mates seem to want to "solve" the problem, like you did for centuries - kill it!

Kagicre,

I, and many others, are not saying we want to "kill it." The wolf population in Idaho is safe and here to stay for perpetuity with approximately 100 packs & breeding pairs currently in existance. The ESA only required 10 breeding pairs and therefore the wolf no longer requires special protection! We Idahoans have fulfilled our (ESA) agreement. Now I (we) want these animals removed from the ESA as an endangered species.

The State of Idaho has complied with all the requirements of the Wolf Reintroduction Plan. This is the plan that the Defenders of Wildlife and all the other environmental & animal rights groups agreed upon to save the wolf. Now all the groups involved are not in keeping with the original agreement - they want more, and then more wolf protection. They are suing us for what purpose?

Groups such as The Defenders of Wildlife have to continue to fight for more protection. If they don't they will find themselves without a job and therefore they do have an agenda. I am John Doe trying to defend my property only if I need to and still enjoy the sounds of a wolf howling in the moonlight. I am not intent on killing all the wolves to "solve" the problem. Stop thinking with your heart and use you head. The wolf can be managed by the Idaho Dep't of Fish & Game to the benefit of the people of Idaho and the wolves benefit.

Most folks don't realize that it's easy to go on a just/honorable crusade to save the wolf, but don't consider the waste of money and troubles you cause other folks who have to live and deal with the effects of your dreams, crusades and wolves. Where you live you don't have to deal with it, but we do.

The wolf is safe. The reintroduction has been successful beyond everyone's wildest dreams. Remove the wolf from the endangered spcies list as it is no longer a just crusade.
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