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Old 04-09-2012, 09:41 AM
 
2,832 posts, read 3,178,513 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Foothold traps were used to capture and reintroduce the wolves in the first place. They won't injure the animal when used right. In fact, the wolf that was trapped by Bransford had no injuries to its paws. The problem was people took potshots at it before the trapper ever even got there. I think that hatred for wolves is the result of the animal rights groups blocking any management until they got out of control. It's wrong what those people did, but this backlash should have been foreseen when people were losing animals to an overpopulation of wolves.

What's also wrong is this: a $1000 bounty being put on that man's head by animal rights activists, and animal rights activists trying to destroy not just his life but his family's as well with threats and attempts to cost his wife's job and his.

Regarding the dog, I don't know what was done to release it, but if you simply depress the springs (on longspring and underspring traps) or levers of a (coilspring) foothold trap, the jaws will open, and the animal can be released unharmed.
A. The wolves that were reintroduced were darted from a helicopter, not trapped in a foothold trap.

B. I agree. The personal threats and posting of his address, phone, etc. is unacceptable. There are crazies and on both sides of the wolf issue. Attempts by the public to have him removed from his job as a public employee are fair game though, IMO.

C. Our dog had already pulled so hard at the trap his toes were in that they sustained too much damage to be saved even after veterinary care. The trapper illegally trapping on our land cost us hundreds of dollars and cost our dog a great deal of pain.
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
12,741 posts, read 6,184,579 times
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Attached is data on the wolf harvest. I'm suprised to see how large a portion of the take is by trapping vs hunting. I would guess that hunting success was below what was needed to manage the population.
Attached Thumbnails
Idaho Wolf Population Issues: was "Precious Idaho"-trap.jpg  
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Old 04-09-2012, 03:35 PM
 
Location: The Woods
14,396 posts, read 13,524,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistyriverranch View Post
A. The wolves that were reintroduced were darted from a helicopter, not trapped in a foothold trap.

B. I agree. The personal threats and posting of his address, phone, etc. is unacceptable. There are crazies and on both sides of the wolf issue. Attempts by the public to have him removed from his job as a public employee are fair game though, IMO.

C. Our dog had already pulled so hard at the trap his toes were in that they sustained too much damage to be saved even after veterinary care. The trapper illegally trapping on our land cost us hundreds of dollars and cost our dog a great deal of pain.
Foothold traps were involved with some of them.


Quote:

In Alberta, we worked with local trappers who normally trap wolves for the pelts. We paid them to radio-collar wolves.
NOVA | Bringing Wolves Home


Quote:
Soon these wolves and many others that went through similar ordeals were on their way to Idaho and Wyoming. Canadian trappers received up to $2,000 for the capture and radio-collaring of a single wolf. The wolves these trappers captured and tagged will be tracked by United States Wolf Reintroduction personnel by monitoring the radio collar signals to locate and tranquilize the animals for their relocation to Idaho and Wyoming.
Wolf Reintroduction: How the Wolves Came Back - Wolves Come Home: Accomplishing Reintroduction (http://www.class.uidaho.edu/kpgeorge/issues/wolves_reintroduction/reintroduction_logistics.htm - broken link)

Going after his job is not acceptable. He broke no laws. Public employees should not be subject to trial by media as far as their jobs go. The initial stories weren't accurate either. Once the facts trickled out to the general public (I'm a member of that forum he posted it on and knew about it before the media caught on), it was pretty obvious it was not as initially portrayed. He didn't shoot and torture the wolf, others took potshots. The picture does come across poorly but he was excited when he caught it, wolves are incredibly difficult to trap. Yes he should have shot it immediately and ended any suffering before taking a picture because of what those idiots did to the wolf. He wanted a picture of him with a live wolf. "Buck fever" is a real thing and some people don't think right when they're hunting and have something there in front of them. He's not the vicious animal torturer he's being portrayed as, though. He even used an offset jaw trap which is easier on the animals though it increases the chances of not catching something. The trap did no damage to the wolf. Those idiots who shot it are the ones people should be concerned about. I don't believe they have been ID'd yet either.

It really sucks that someone trespassed and trapped that way. I don't condone that. However, I've seen trapped pets and without exception, anytime the traps were opened properly there was no serious harm done. Every serious injury I've seen from a trapped pet has come from improperly trying to force open the jaws of the trap or such. I've often thought some sort of education campaign such as posters near trails showing how to properly open different traps would solve a large portion of the pet-trapper conflicts.
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Old 04-09-2012, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
8,938 posts, read 3,753,405 times
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Nature has a way of controlling things.
Idaho's wolf population could crash from parvovirus, distemper, rabies, or a number of other diseases, just as the elk population could crash from brucellosis and a number of diseases elk can catch.

3-4 hard winters in a row, followed by cold wet springs could cause both of them to crash.

The thing is, neither elk nor wolves have the migratory routes they once had to escape these natural crashes. Those routes are all cut up by Interstates, increasing human population in what was once undeveloped wilderness, and all the general intrusions of civilization. Because this is so, it's absolutely imperative that our wildlife must be managed.
Idaho was part of the great experiment of wolf re-introduction. Now, nearly 20 years later, Idaho's management plan works, and is the working model for other states. I think it's past time for the wolves to be re-introduced into other states- Oregon, Washington, Utah, the Dakotas, Colorado, and in states east of the Mississippi, especially Appalacia, where wolves once roamed.

So far, the Feds are in for a penny. It's time they went in for the full pound, and re-introduce the wolves into other suitable areas. Once this happens, for sure there will be new ways of trapping, moving, and other wolf control that will soon be developed.
This issue is more than just wolves and elk. The wolves in Yellowstone have transformed the Hayden Valley, the park's richest wildlife area, back to what it once was and should be. The native fish are coming back, ducks and geese are migrating through the park again, and the Griz are coming back. If wolves were once again in the northeast- Vermont, upper New York, etc., Bambi would not be killing so many people in cars as it is now.

Last edited by banjomike; 04-09-2012 at 06:08 PM..
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Idahodean
21 posts, read 20,121 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
The wolves in Yellowstone have transformed the Hayden Valley, the park's richest wildlife area, back to what it once was and should be. The native fish are coming back, ducks and geese are migrating through the park again, and the Griz are coming back. If wolves were once again in the northeast- Vermont, upper New York, etc., Bambi would not be killing so many people in cars as it is now.
Jeese Banjo...you make wolves sound like a cure-all for all the Earth's woes. Although wolves are not a bad thing they are not a cure-all as they have created a few new problems of their own. Some temporary, some permanent like the death of family pets, livestock, etc. Not to mention the depletion of wild ungulates.

What have wolves done to improve the migratory waterfowl's lot and caused them to migrate through the park again? They never stopped migrating through the park in the first place and I'll never believe they did. What have the wolves done to return native fish for Pete's sake? And I would certainly like to hear how wolves have contributed so mightily to the return of the grizzly bear. I'm sure that explanation will be realistic.

I realize the return of wolves can affect other wildlife, but nothing so momentous as what you described and not always in a positive manner. I'm familiar with an area I work in that literally teamed with wildlife such as deer, elk, moose, mountain goats and waterfowl. Wolves didn't affect the waterfowl one way or the other, but now there are just of few deer/ek/goats left...a very few (yeah, the wolves were killing mountain goats also). Now even the wolves have disappeared from that area due to a lack of preybase for them. Now I never see any wildlife except chipmunks or birds and it's just a wildlife wasteland. The exact opposite affect of what you describe in the Hayden Valley. Maybe, you should wait and see to analyze the full "loong-term" affects of having returned the wolves to the park? Also, I need to mention wolves already existed in Idaho (I saw them in Bear Valley and the Frank Church) prior to idiots spending millions of dollars on the return of Canadian wolves to Idaho. The Idaho wolves just needed protection and not their expensive Canadian bretheren.

Wolves are always a hot topic and everybody is an expert LOL...including me.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangerider45 View Post
Jeese Banjo...you make wolves sound like a cure-all for all the Earth's woes. Although wolves are not a bad thing they are not a cure-all as they have created a few new problems of their own. Some temporary, some permanent like the death of family pets, livestock, etc. Not to mention the depletion of wild ungulates.

What have wolves done to improve the migratory waterfowl's lot and caused them to migrate through the park again? They never stopped migrating through the park in the first place and I'll never believe they did. What have the wolves done to return native fish for Pete's sake? And I would certainly like to hear how wolves have contributed so mightily to the return of the grizzly bear. I'm sure that explanation will be realistic.

I realize the return of wolves can affect other wildlife, but nothing so momentous as what you described and not always in a positive manner. I'm familiar with an area I work in that literally teamed with wildlife such as deer, elk, moose, mountain goats and waterfowl. Wolves didn't affect the waterfowl one way or the other, but now there are just of few deer/ek/goats left...a very few (yeah, the wolves were killing mountain goats also). Now even the wolves have disappeared from that area due to a lack of preybase for them. Now I never see any wildlife except chipmunks or birds and it's just a wildlife wasteland. The exact opposite affect of what you describe in the Hayden Valley. Maybe, you should wait and see to analyze the full "loong-term" affects of having returned the wolves to the park? Also, I need to mention wolves already existed in Idaho (I saw them in Bear Valley and the Frank Church) prior to idiots spending millions of dollars on the return of Canadian wolves to Idaho. The Idaho wolves just needed protection and not their expensive Canadian bretheren.

Wolves are always a hot topic and everybody is an expert LOL...including me.
While you see nature in a negative or positive manner, I don't. Nature's balance does not always turn out the way humans would like or expect.
The long term effects you mentioned are just that- all of us who are living today may never know the ultimate outcome of the wolf re-introduction. And it's quite possible that Yellowstone Park won't be an open air menagerie any longer. But who's to say that the expectations of the visitors to the park in the future will have the same expectations regarding the wildlife as they have now?

I agree with your sighting wolves in those areas you mentioned; it only makes sense some wolves weren't eliminated 90 years ago, and it makes as much sense that wolves could have migrated down from B.C. where they were never eliminated.

My observations regarding the birds and fish are only my own. I've been spending time in Yellowstone since I was very young, and I can remember a time when the bird migrations were not as large. For a fact, many of the creeks in the park ran through denuded stream banks that had no willows or aspens growing along them, both necessities for promoting trout survival. Since deer and elk both browse on willow, during the decades when the wolves were absent, the elk didn't worry when grazing down the browse.
Early pictures of Hayden Valley show all the stream banks were thick with willows, and the willows are growing once again. Since every creek I've ever seen in the Yellowstone/Snake River drainage has heavy willow stands, I'm just guessing that this is the natural order. I could be wrong.

As I mentioned, the introduced wolves could crash at any time. Parvo virus could get 'em at any time, as could rabies, distemper, and other canine diseases. Every time we have 2 wet springs in a row around here Parvo breaks out, and Parvo can kill a pack in less than 2 weeks.

I also don't have any problem with Idaho's wolf hunt. If the intention of wolf re-introduction is to bring wolves back to their former territories, then the wolves should spread out and re-occupy the range far outside of the re-introduction areas alone. If hunting puts pressure on them to move, that's not bad as I see it. Wolves once made their living in all the western states, and they should not live just in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming.

by the same token, hunters got very used to the same easy pickings the wolves found. The absence of wolves made the elk and other game much less wary, and if we are to return the natural predatory balance, hunters will have to work harder to get their game, just as they once did. And so should the wolves.
This new generation of wolves also has to have the same fear of man and his livestock that their ancestors had. That's why I don't object to a rancher shooting wolves on his property.

I think that the re-introduction will eventually fail. The odds are all stacked against the wolves, and the human population all over is greater now than when they still able to hold their own.

It is really only an experiment, and in my view, if it fails, it fails and should not be repeated. If it succeeds, then wolves will be seen in areas far away from where they were first introduced, and we will all get some of the old wildness back with all of it's benefits and tribulations.

Personally, I'm guessing that upstate New York would like to see some of their plague of deer thin out. Bambi is the most dangerous wildlife they have, as deer crossings kill more people than any other wildlife there when they're hit by cars. I hope a few of your present wolves' offspring make it that far east.
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Hauser Lake area
1 posts, read 1,415 times
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Unfortunately, I doubt the wolves will make it here. There are too many people, including the Governor of Idaho, who want to wipe them out. Too bad they introduced the wrong species of Wolf here. I personally have never seen any, but many many tracks, and some wolf kills. If the "Government Entities" would have managed them in the first place, then we would not be where we are today. I do not have any problems with the Wolf here, but I am not the majority. If you go up in the Calder, Idaho area, or even the Silver Valley, you are amongst wolf haters. I steer clear of my opinions to most people, as I do not want to argue all the reasons I feel the Wolf is not in the wrong, we are! Thanks for listening.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:15 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthIdahoNative View Post
Unfortunately, I doubt the wolves will make it here. There are too many people, including the Governor of Idaho, who want to wipe them out. Too bad they introduced the wrong species of Wolf here. I personally have never seen any, but many many tracks, and some wolf kills. If the "Government Entities" would have managed them in the first place, then we would not be where we are today. I do not have any problems with the Wolf here, but I am not the majority. If you go up in the Calder, Idaho area, or even the Silver Valley, you are amongst wolf haters. I steer clear of my opinions to most people, as I do not want to argue all the reasons I feel the Wolf is not in the wrong, we are! Thanks for listening.
You never know. Young wolves can ramble over immense distances looking for a mate and a territory for themselves.
I believed it was a given that they would move south from the wilderness area and Yellowstone into the Island Park area and the upper reaches of the Upper Snake River Valley, and they have been sighted in both places.

But they've also been sighted 160 miles southwest in the INL site, out in the Arco desert. The site has been closed to hunting since the early 50's, and antelope, elk and deer have figured out they're safe from hunters there long ago, but it was still a surprise to learn at least 2 wolves have been spotted there, as the place has many separated test facilities and stations scattered all over it, and each has people who work at each daily.

I wasn't so surprised the wolves were there- there are also lots of jackrabbits, mice, and other wolf snacks in abundance as well as the big game, but that they were seen at all was surprising to me. While both wolves were seen at very long range, their sense of human avoidance is very keen and they have powerful senses. The only wolves so far that have allowed themselves to be seen regularly are in one of the Park packs led by an alpha female who, apparently, tolerates humans. It seems she actually appears to like showing off her pups. (But I've never seen her- that may be park ranger gossip.)
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Idahodean
21 posts, read 20,121 times
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"I think that the re-introduction will eventually fail. The odds are all stacked against the wolves, and the human population all over is greater now than when they were still able to hold their own." Banjomike

I don't believe the re-intro of wolves is destined to fail at all. In fact, I feel very certain they can easily survive simply because they never disappeared in the first place. As I mentioned in a previous post that prior to the introduction I saw plenty of wolves in the back country of Idaho. Specifically in the Frank Church Wilderness, Bear Valley and around Idaho City, Idaho.

I base this belief that wolves will easily survive on my life experiences and first hand knowledge with wolves. I saw my first pack of six wolves on Owl Creek in the Frank Church Wilderness Area in 1969 and worked for the Forest Service for over thirty years. I teamed with the US Fish & Wildlife Service and was quite involved with the wolf reintro and I worked once in a while with experts such as Carter Niemeyer. In fact, some of the wolves we have here near Idaho City were collared and so we know they came here from the Yellowstone country. I've witnessed and investigated wolf kills that included 30 to 40 head of dead livestock per event. I had access to gov't records that documented the existence of wolves in the 1950s and 1960s here in Idaho, and I saw wolves in the 60s, 70s, and 1980s. My point is I have quite a bit of first hand experience/knowledge with wolves and I can say with confidence they are here to stay. Wolves have always been in Idaho...

Hey, if you play the banjo Mike...I'm jealous LOL.
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:20 AM
 
Location: Alamogordo, NM
1,503 posts, read 1,283,045 times
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rangerider45 does not speak with a forked tongue. He speaks truth. The wolves are all over Idaho and they are smart enough to steer clear of the guns that look to kill them. Just the truth, nothing else. Wolf on!

Oh, let the hootin', hollerin' ranchers fire away, they'll never kill them all, anyway. Eh?
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