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Old 09-23-2008, 07:12 PM
 
4,499 posts, read 6,153,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greensleeves View Post
Well, since I didn't comment on that particular post and therefore, did not get called on it, I can't really respond to your question, either.
At least I don't get cranky with people who don't agree with me.
But you say that you prefer experience to opinion. I LIVE (not just hike or spend a hundred days out of the year)in wolf (and other large predator)territory and raise livestock and have never lost an animal nor my guardian dogs to a wolf in 6 years. If wolves are as bloodthirsty as some say...you'd think I'd have at least lost lambs during lambing season with all those rich scents on the air.
So how come experience this doesn't change your mind?
And I'm not cranky...just curious.
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Old 09-23-2008, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Idaho
873 posts, read 1,415,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistyriverranch View Post
But you say that you prefer experience to opinion. I LIVE (not just hike or spend a hundred days out of the year)in wolf (and other large predator)territory and raise livestock and have never lost an animal nor my guardian dogs to a wolf in 6 years. If wolves are as bloodthirsty as some say...you'd think I'd have at least lost lambs during lambing season with all those rich scents on the air.
So how come experience this doesn't change your mind?
And I'm not cranky...just curious.
Because it's not inline with his preconceived notions. It's like politics and religion; if not for me then you must be against me.

We could have 30 bloggers on this one thread who share your experience. It wouldn't make any difference to most who already have the mindset that you must be wrong.

Wolves are a very beautiful, highly intelligent animal. Again, they hunt for food, not violence (unlike man).

The poster who stated that he's "seen" all these dead animals being "partially" eaten by wolves may be right. But again, it doesn't mean the wolves killed them all.

--There are many irresponsible hunters who injure their targets and leave them to die painfully slow deaths.

--There are other predators, not just wolves.

--There are sickly animals who die every year.

Man placed the wolves here after "extensive research". Clearly man was wrong in doing so. But does that mean that a wolf hunt is our only solution to the problem? We spend vast amounts of time and money attempting to label peanut butter and yams (sic) as cancer causing and yet we can't find a humane solution to the over population of our wolves?
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Old 09-23-2008, 07:31 PM
 
130 posts, read 376,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistyriverranch View Post
But you say that you prefer experience to opinion. I LIVE (not just hike or spend a hundred days out of the year)in wolf (and other large predator)territory and raise livestock and have never lost an animal nor my guardian dogs to a wolf in 6 years. If wolves are as bloodthirsty as some say...you'd think I'd have at least lost lambs during lambing season with all those rich scents on the air.
So how come experience this doesn't change your mind?
And I'm not cranky...just curious.
Because I also lived in livestock country and saw my neighbors foal killed by a wolf, videotape that another neighbor took of an attack on his horses and the decline of the calf/fawn population. That is MY experience.

Listen, I think the point that I would like to make is that it is not as black and white as we'd like and people's experiences are all different. Experiences are not up for interpretation and for one to say that "My experience is more to my liking, therefore YOU must be mistaken about yours" is irresponsible.

I don't like the killing of wolves any more than anyone else. But until we can all pull our heads out of our ***** and agree to disagree without being personal about it, we can't really come up with a good plan, now can we?

Last edited by Greensleeves; 09-23-2008 at 07:39 PM..
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Old 09-23-2008, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Idaho
873 posts, read 1,415,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greensleeves View Post

I don't like the killing of wolves any more than anyone else. But until we can all pull our heads out of our ***** and agree to disagree without being personal about it, we can't really come up with a good plan, now can we?

Good point; "come up with a GOOD plan", not hunting.
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Old 09-23-2008, 07:42 PM
 
130 posts, read 376,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastidahomom View Post
Good point; "come up with a GOOD plan", not hunting.
Well, see...there you go. What if the best plan DOES involve hunting? We can't possibly know that without all the facts.
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Old 09-23-2008, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Idaho
873 posts, read 1,415,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greensleeves View Post
Well, see...there you go. What if the best plan DOES involve hunting? We can't possibly know that without all the facts.

Hunting is not a "good" plan. I have stated reasons why it isn't a good plan. Go back and read. Hunting is done out of anger for the safety of one's livestock. Actions created out of anger are rarely good. Hunting for any purpose other than taking your meat home to put on the dinner table is a "thrill kill". That is not a good plan. A good plan is humane.
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Old 09-23-2008, 08:14 PM
 
4,499 posts, read 6,153,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greensleeves View Post
Because I also lived in livestock country and saw my neighbors foal killed by a wolf, videotape that another neighbor took of an attack on his horses and the decline of the calf/fawn population. That is MY experience.

Listen, I think the point that I would like to make is that it is not as black and white as we'd like and people's experiences are all different. Experiences are not up for interpretation and for one to say that "My experience is more to my liking, therefore YOU must be mistaken about yours" is irresponsible.

I don't like the killing of wolves any more than anyone else. But until we can all pull our heads out of our ***** and agree to disagree without being personal about it, we can't really come up with a good plan, now can we?
I do find it interesting that you didn't post about these supposed wolf kills right up front. I call bat puckey.
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Old 09-23-2008, 08:16 PM
 
130 posts, read 376,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastidahomom View Post
Hunting is not a "good" plan. I have stated reasons why it isn't a good plan. Go back and read. Hunting is done out of anger for the safety of one's livestock. Actions created out of anger are rarely good. Hunting for any purpose other than taking your meat home to put on the dinner table is a "thrill kill". That is not a good plan. A good plan is humane.
This is one of those points on which we will have to agree to disagree. All the men in my family hunted when I was growing up. It was not done out of anger, I can assure you. I have also hunted a little, but I don't have the stomach for it.

My fiance is a Big Game hunter who has hunted all over the world. His latest trip was to Africa, where he hunted certain animals as part of a plan to cull the over populations so all the animals wouldn't starve to death. His trophy fees paid thousands of dollars into their conservation programs, while the meat fed the local villagers. This man was a firearms instructor for the Police Academy. He dropped a huge Kudu with one shot. It was instantaneous. I believe that most hunters strive to get that one good shot. Of course there are what we call the 'Bubbas' who get all revved up and take a bad shot at anything that comes along. Thank goodness, I haven't met too many of those and those that I have met are looked down upon by the hunters who take hunting seriously.

When people start killing out of frustration, it is anything but a thrill kill. Far from it. I believe most people would probably be thrilled if they didn't have to.
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Old 09-23-2008, 08:19 PM
 
130 posts, read 376,809 times
Reputation: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistyriverranch View Post
I do find it interesting that you didn't post about these supposed wolf kills right up front. I call bat puckey.
I see.

We could have 30 bloggers on this one thread who share your experience. It wouldn't make any difference to most who already have the mindset that you must be wrong.

I must be wrong, then.

'Night all.
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Old 09-23-2008, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Idaho
873 posts, read 1,415,829 times
Reputation: 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greensleeves View Post
This is one of those points on which we will have to agree to disagree. All the men in my family hunted when I was growing up. It was not done out of anger, I can assure you. I have also hunted a little, but I don't have the stomach for it.

My fiance is a Big Game hunter who has hunted all over the world. His latest trip was to Africa, where he hunted certain animals as part of a plan to cull the over populations so all the animals wouldn't starve to death. His trophy fees paid thousands of dollars into their conservation programs, while the meat fed the local villagers. This man was a firearms instructor for the Police Academy. He dropped a huge Kudu with one shot. It was instantaneous. I believe that most hunters strive to get that one good shot. Of course there are what we call the 'Bubbas' who get all revved up and take a bad shot at anything that comes along. Thank goodness, I haven't met too many of those and those that I have met are looked down upon by the hunters who take hunting seriously.

When people start killing out of frustration, it is anything but a thrill kill. Far from it. I believe most people would probably be thrilled if they didn't have to.

You state you've come from a family of hunters who ate off their targets. Exactly my point, you won't eat wolf. You are overlooking the very points we're trying to make and substituting with various inane responses.

And I do disagree with your comment that killing out of frustration is anything but a thrill kill. It is nothing less simply because there is no reason except an ingenuous attempt to justify your actions to kill.
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