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Old 09-23-2008, 09:55 PM
 
130 posts, read 296,076 times
Reputation: 73

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You state you've come from a family of hunters who ate off their targets. Exactly my point, you won't eat wolf.


Where exactly did I say what they hunted and why? It seems to me that this is an inference you drew to support your argument. And just because what I have to say doesn't interest you, doesn't make it 'inane'. Someone might be interested in it, as there was a point to it.

This is not a good way to debate. And since we can't seem to debate accurately, I really am done with this subject, at least.
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Old 09-23-2008, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Idaho
873 posts, read 1,045,060 times
Reputation: 256
"all the men in my family hunted, it was not done out of anger........." then you go on with more hunting diatribe and ........."while the meat fed the local villagers."

That's where. Did your family trophy kill? If yes, then frankly I think it's sick.
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Old 09-24-2008, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
33,797 posts, read 29,215,017 times
Reputation: 15646
Back about page three, I tried to make the point that, as modern man created the game imbalance by killing of the apex predators which let the herbivores (elk and cattle) over graze the ecosystem with subsequent reduced carrying capacity and starvation, we have a responsibility to try and restore the balance. In smaller words- fix it.

The fundamental problem is that nature is not stable. Herbivore herds expand until starvation. Then the predator packs increase given the easier hunting of the weakened herbivores until they kill off too many elk, then the survival rate of wolf cubs drops until the number of elk, given a recovered ecosystem, increases enough to support more wolves. Then the next oscillation of the interconnected species populations starts all over.

Apparently we have tried to do so by reintroducing wolves to the ecosystem. Also, apparently these critters think they landed in heaven and are, give a huge herd of food animals, also multiplying beyond the carrying capacity of the ecosystem for wolves. Also, again, we have the responsibility to fix it. Even if this means killing enough wolves, or somehow reducing their surviving to reproduction rate, low enough to have enough wolves to keep the elk population at a sustainable lever and the same for the wolves.

I think that controlled hunting of both elk and wolves is needed until the population oscillations are dampened enough to keep both populations healthy. On a pragmatic level the sales of hunting licenses could help pay for the ecosystem management. The presence of hunters, the skilled and the sports, usually adds substantial cash to the local human economy.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:46 AM
 
2,854 posts, read 3,247,042 times
Reputation: 1412
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Apparently we have tried to do so by reintroducing wolves to the ecosystem. Also, apparently these critters think they landed in heaven and are, give a huge herd of food animals, also multiplying beyond the carrying capacity of the ecosystem for wolves. Also, again, we have the responsibility to fix it..
You made this point but what you're missing here is that a lot of people don't believe this is happening and their experiences and the scientific community backs this up. Read the article posted 2 pages ago linked by Lperkins.
It appears to me that the people who think there is a problem with the wolves all have an agenda, usually "sportsmen".

"One of the main motivators behind the effort to remove wolves from the endangered species list in the West is the assumption that they are largely responsible for noticeable elk herd reductions," Nelson said. "If that's true, then wolves are therefore linked to decreased hunter success rates, and therefore linked to decreased hunting tourism dollars. Vucetich's findings will be viewed as surprising because so many people are invested in the claim that wolves are responsible for elk herd reductions. Though they probably won't change their minds given this one study, it certainly does muddy the waters."
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0108224832.htm
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Old 09-24-2008, 11:06 AM
 
130 posts, read 296,076 times
Reputation: 73
An interesting article to read with an open mind.

Study: Wolves Alter Elk Breeding Pattern, Yellowstone Wolves Brings Changes in Elk Breeding Patterns, Study Concludes - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/17/ap/tech/mainD8NB4E7G0.shtml - broken link)
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Old 10-13-2008, 11:22 PM
 
Location: outnabout
97 posts, read 141,009 times
Reputation: 67
Having read all the posts here, it is the SAME opinions repeated on any forum on the web, that discusses the 'wolf'.
My observation...there are always two sides taken. Those that want to protect the cute wild dog, and those that want to manage the mangy critter.
It is obvious where some of you fit in.

I believe the reintroduction was/is a blunder. In hindsight, it should have been a better plan.
You must understand the natural instinct of a wolf.
First, he is a killer.
Second, he is nomadic because he is terratorial.

The feds put him in Yellowstone (National Park) aka Federal Property
He didn't stay put. He has migrated to Idaho Wyoming Montana Utah Colorado maybe more. Now he has become a problem for those states that didn't want him to begin with.
Like it or not, he will have to be managed, just like everything else in the ecosystem.
I would like to see one in the 'wilds' of Yellowstone, but I like seeing the elk, too.
There will have to be a balance, but not 'natures' way. Just won't work.
You can get all worked up over it, or just get it thru your head that there needs to be give & take from both sides.

Don't you people have firewood to chop? winter's a comin
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Old 10-14-2008, 12:32 AM
 
Location: Idaho
873 posts, read 1,045,060 times
Reputation: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by outnabout View Post
Having read all the posts here, it is the SAME opinions repeated on any forum on the web, that discusses the 'wolf'.
My observation...there are always two sides taken. Those that want to protect the cute wild dog, and those that want to manage the mangy critter.
It is obvious where some of you fit in.

I believe the reintroduction was/is a blunder. In hindsight, it should have been a better plan.
You must understand the natural instinct of a wolf.
First, he is a killer.
Second, he is nomadic because he is terratorial.

The feds put him in Yellowstone (National Park) aka Federal Property
He didn't stay put. He has migrated to Idaho Wyoming Montana Utah Colorado maybe more. Now he has become a problem for those states that didn't want him to begin with.
Like it or not, he will have to be managed, just like everything else in the ecosystem.
I would like to see one in the 'wilds' of Yellowstone, but I like seeing the elk, too.
There will have to be a balance, but not 'natures' way. Just won't work.
You can get all worked up over it, or just get it thru your head that there needs to be give & take from both sides.

Don't you people have firewood to chop? winter's a comin
Seein's as how the last post was about 3 or 4 weeks ago, I'd have to suggest you've chopped enough firewood for all of us.
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Old 10-16-2008, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Never windy Wyoming
52 posts, read 119,335 times
Reputation: 39
To me its more about controlling the people of the West than reintroducing wolves here. I think that its weird that people want wolves and Grizzly bears behind every bush. Also, I want to add that at least in South East Idaho at least they were naturally or illegally planted and was making a comeback on their own.
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Old 09-03-2009, 12:56 PM
 
1 posts, read 1,258 times
Reputation: 15
I live in Idaho in wolf country. Most of you have no clue what is going on. I have been stalked by wolves while on horse back. It is a very spooky experience. Most of you would change your opinion after an experience like that. I don't have livestock. I do enjoy the outdoors, but would be very nervous about taking my children out after my experience. Contrary to popular belief, wolves do kill for sport, they have ruined the elk herds in idaho, and they are out of control. Most of you need to leave your computer once in a while and actually go to the backcountry. You may change your opinion.
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Old 09-05-2009, 03:42 AM
 
Location: FINALLY in N. Idaho
1,043 posts, read 2,179,480 times
Reputation: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by summitrider View Post
I live in Idaho in wolf country. Most of you have no clue what is going on. I have been stalked by wolves while on horse back. It is a very spooky experience. Most of you would change your opinion after an experience like that. I don't have livestock. I do enjoy the outdoors, but would be very nervous about taking my children out after my experience. Contrary to popular belief, wolves do kill for sport, they have ruined the elk herds in idaho, and they are out of control. Most of you need to leave your computer once in a while and actually go to the backcountry. You may change your opinion.
We need to hear more from folks like you Summit....
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