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Old 01-21-2011, 09:12 PM
 
5,529 posts, read 8,779,847 times
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Well, CMartel, welcome to the Idaho forum! The post you're commenting on was someone's one and only post/visit to CDF from 2008, on an old thread resurrected by someone who is apparently linguistically challenged. We have a more recent thread concerning the wolf hunt in Idaho, and if you're really interested in the updated Idaho wolf situation, and not just grabbing the chance to vent about wolf issues in general, you may want to peruse that informative thread. Wolves killed another dog in NID this week

As for the "Mistyriver chap" comment...

Hang around and get to know us a little better...

The CFF chap
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Old 01-21-2011, 09:15 PM
 
5,529 posts, read 8,779,847 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMartel2 View Post
If by weak, you mean by targeting pregnant females, ripping out the fetus, and leaving the carcas of the mother, perhaps. Killing for pleasure, no doubt. Yes, they love does. Which is why they've decimated the elk population in the Lolo elk preserve regions, where their populations have been reduced by 90%. The Teton region has been almost equally decimated in Wyoming.

The wolves that were introduced into the Rocky Mountain West are not native to the region. They hunt in large packs as opposed to pairs and weigh up to 180 pounds as opposed to 60 pounds.

Frankly, I think they should be exterminated and the native wolf population introduced, but call me a purist. *rolls eyes*

Almost without fail, those who are the most protective of wolves live in cities, haven't set foot near a farm, and certainly haven't gone hunting for elk to feed their family. Obviously our mistyriver chap is an exception.
Well, CMartel, welcome to the Idaho forum! The post you're commenting on was someone's one and only post/visit to CDF from 2008, on an old thread resurrected by someone who is apparently linguistically challenged. We have a more recent thread concerning the wolf hunt in Idaho, and if you're really interested in the updated Idaho wolf situation, you may want to peruse that informative thread. http://www.city-data.com/forum/idaho/984090-wolves-killed-another-dog-nid-week.html

As for the "Mistyriver chap" comment...

Hang around and get to know us a little better...

The CFF chap
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Old 01-24-2011, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Pueblo, CO
466 posts, read 880,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason91688 View Post
wolves are very dangerous they have been known to attack and kill people they carry diseases that can be transmited to humans. they also kill animals for the sport leaving them to rott if you dont belive me i live in eastern washington have found dead elk in the mountains killed by wolves and left to rott there pests to pets and livestalk and game in the area
Wow, I never heard such a lot of bull**** before! We humans are the only predators that kill for "fun" and who are so out of zinc with nature that we don't know what's good for our environment. We are the once that do harm over and over, most of the time because we are badly educated - like you, it seems - and we should learn from mother nature and don't destroy it.
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Old 01-24-2011, 03:59 PM
 
Location: naples, idaho
148 posts, read 411,871 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kagicre View Post
Wow, I never heard such a lot of bull**** before! We humans are the only predators that kill for "fun" and who are so out of zinc with nature that we don't know what's good for our environment. We are the once that do harm over and over, most of the time because we are badly educated - like you, it seems - and we should learn from mother nature and don't destroy it.

you don't help your opinion by this post. animals may not kill for fun but they do kill and not eat the prey. watch a house/barn cat catch a mouse. wolves do kill and not consume their prey sometimes. i can put a video up from the u.p. of michigan of a wolf ripping off the rear leg of a deer and leaving it for dead, not consuming the deer for food. what would you call this? humans have made mistakes in the past regarding hunting, i.e. the bison but we are educated. the wolves like any other prey animal need to be managed. there here and we won't ever get rid of them but they need managed. i would bet that you are not a hunter. where do you think the money comes from that manage the wildlife? it comes from sportsmen by purchasing license, guns, gear, etc. you seem to be the misinformed.
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Old 01-26-2011, 02:03 AM
 
Location: Pueblo, CO
466 posts, read 880,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flatlander dave View Post
you don't help your opinion by this post. animals may not kill for fun but they do kill and not eat the prey. watch a house/barn cat catch a mouse. wolves do kill and not consume their prey sometimes. i can put a video up from the u.p. of michigan of a wolf ripping off the rear leg of a deer and leaving it for dead, not consuming the deer for food. what would you call this? humans have made mistakes in the past regarding hunting, i.e. the bison but we are educated. the wolves like any other prey animal need to be managed. there here and we won't ever get rid of them but they need managed. i would bet that you are not a hunter. where do you think the money comes from that manage the wildlife? it comes from sportsmen by purchasing license, guns, gear, etc. you seem to be the misinformed.
Yeah, you are right, I am not a hunter, but I am not a vegetarian either. And I know that sometimes animal, like a wolf kills an other animal and doesn't consume it. I don't know why they doing it, but they don't do it out of fun. But there are lots of hunters out there that do kill for fun. And if we would let take nature more it's curse, we might not have to "manage" predators, like the wolf at all. The manage overpopulation of deer, moose and so on very well, you know. We should "manage" the predator homo sapiens much more than we do at the moment. We are still the worst predator on this planet. IMO
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Old 01-26-2011, 04:21 AM
 
Location: In The Outland
6,023 posts, read 11,499,483 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kagicre View Post
Wow, I never heard such a lot of bull**** before! We humans are the only predators that kill for "fun" and who are so out of zinc with nature that we don't know what's good for our environment. We are the once that do harm over and over, most of the time because we are badly educated - like you, it seems - and we should learn from mother nature and don't destroy it.
Your post is overflowing with ignorance.
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Old 01-26-2011, 08:28 AM
 
540 posts, read 1,063,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kagicre View Post
Wow, I never heard such a lot of bull**** before! We humans are the only predators that kill for "fun" and who are so out of zinc with nature that we don't know what's good for our environment. We are the once that do harm over and over, most of the time because we are badly educated - like you, it seems - and we should learn from mother nature and don't destroy it.
What, pray tell, would you learn from a wolf who intentionally targets pregnant elk, eats the fetus, and leaves the rest? That it's alright to plunder what you most favor and let everything else go to waste? Work on that line a bit.

And yes, wolves do carry parasites that may be spread to human, specifically Echinococcus granulosus, a variety of tapeworm. They've been discsovered in Idaho and Montana thanks to those cute, fuzzy dogs who look like huskies and howl at the moon. They're carried in the intestines of well over half of wolves and are transmissable to humans.

And yes, wolves do kill for sport. Or fun. Or for whatever reason. Hang around long enough, and you'll see an elk carcas lying around. Or look at the the below:

Photographic Proof That Wolves Do Kill Without Eating Their Prey - Gate

I personally think the introduction of these wolves was a mistake and would like to see the situation amended.

Do a bit of reading on the subject. The information is out there.

Last edited by CMartel2; 01-26-2011 at 08:45 AM..
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Old 01-26-2011, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Idahodean
21 posts, read 34,529 times
Reputation: 56
Default Mother Nature is a cruel lady...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kagicre View Post
Wow, I never heard such a lot of bull**** before! We humans are the only predators that kill for "fun" and who are so out of zinc with nature that we don't know what's good for our environment. We are the once that do harm over and over, most of the time because we are badly educated - like you, it seems - and we should learn from mother nature and don't destroy it.
Kagicre, could you be any more negative towards humanity? Who is it that recently protected and stabilized wolf numbers? For me, you exemplify the liberal, enviro thinker whose thought processes apply heart logic rather than head logic. Most folks are good people with their hearts in the right place, but lack practical experience and knowledge of Mother Nature. What makes folks think wolves won’t kill people? Domestic dogs have killed people so why wouldn’t wolves kill people? And although there aren’t many, there are documented cases of wolves killing people. People use your head, not your hearts and think without bias when you consider the wolf. We humans are not as bad as you think...we're improving.


I have lived and worked in the mountains/forests everyday of my adult life. I see wolves on a monthly or semi-monthly basis both at work and at home where they have attacked my dog and livestock. I've had them on the edge of my campfire light all night trying to get at my pack stock. I have photographed them and watched them herding and feeding on deer & elk numerous times, and I have howled them in. I have had them follow me down trails just watching for an opportunity. My point is I have had some experience with them beginning back in 1968.

Yes, wolves are regal animals, and no they don’t kill for fun. However, through natural selection, Mother Nature has made the best survivors of the predator world opportunistic killers and that sometimes means killing without necessity. They have very limited reasoning powers and they do not form conclusions, judgments, or inferences. They are for the most part an instinct driven wanton killer which is not a bad trait but a necessity of life to insure their survival. So, at times they kill simply because it was instinct driven when they see prey run from them and instinct kicks in. One definition of wanton is: wanton cruelty/killer, 1. deliberate and without motive or provocation. During rough winter months, wolves, or any predator, have to be opportunists. Because of evolution and deep seated instinct, wolves kill whenever they get chance/opportunity simply because opportunity isn’t all that frequent, and at times, a kill may be unnecessary. I have witnessed situations where wolves have eaten only the most prime portions of their kills (often the paunch first) and left the rest to go on and kill again. I have seen wolves eating a live, yearling cow while she (too worn out and exhausted to get up) lifted her head to look back at them eating her own hind quarters. Without reasoning wolves can’t/don’t care about their victims’ comfort or situation. They have to get in there and consume as much as they need to insure their own survival. This is not saying anything bad about wolves, this is just how life pans out everywhere but the Disney Channel. Mother Nature is a cruel lady.

It's not the wolves I mind. To me they are the same as any other predator, and I like having them all in my world. What I do mind are the politics, the baggage that came with the wolves. In Idaho, Montana and Wyoming, the original goal or agreement was for ten breeding packs/pairs of wolves per state (not to mention we already had native wolves when the reintroduction program was started in Idaho). Also, Idaho's wolf reintroduction plan has been tremendously successful as Idaho now has about 100 breeding pairs. In my county alone, we have nine breeding packs. That is nearly the number of packs, in one county, that we originally agreed upon for the entire state of Idaho.

So, why is it environmentalists still insist on continued protection of wolves when we have already more than surpassed their own original dreams, goals they set to define what would be a successful wolf reintroduction program? Because, enviros think of their personal pets, wolves and all animals as possessing human characteristics and traits (too much Disney Channel). Enviros live in a dream world, and that’s why they repeatedly waste taxpayer money with stupid crusades and law suits. Crap, the wolves are safe...let's move on folks.

Last edited by rangerider45; 01-26-2011 at 01:24 PM..
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Old 01-26-2011, 12:53 PM
 
4,500 posts, read 6,153,499 times
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It also helps to not just read the extremely biased articles from the hunting and ranching lobbies which rely on gory pictures to get their points across.
Here's one that addresses the issue (including Lolo) from a more rational perspective:
Debate About Wolves, Elk In Idaho Runs Deep (http://kuow.org/program.php?id=19780 - broken link)
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Old 01-26-2011, 01:04 PM
 
4,500 posts, read 6,153,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMartel2 View Post
The wolves that were introduced into the Rocky Mountain West are not native to the region. They hunt in large packs as opposed to pairs and weigh up to 180 pounds as opposed to 60 pounds.

Frankly, I think they should be exterminated and the native wolf population introduced, but call me a purist. *rolls eyes*
"...With his job positioning him at the forefront of wolf management in the state, Rachael said one of the most frequent myths he heard was that the wolves released in Idaho in 1995 and 1996 were the wrong species for the area.
"That's just pure silliness," he said to the 14 people seated in a backcountry yurt just south of Prairie Creek."
Idaho Mountain Express: State biologist clarifies wolf myths - April 7, 2010
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