retirement recommendations (Boise, Lewiston, Grangeville: house, price, buildings)

[janb]

sorry for confusions, Forest nearby is a high want, My wife wants a home by a stream... I'm a prairie Boy / Wheat farmer (as a youth) Sparse stands such as Fairfield is OK, as long as long as we live in one of them . There was a really nice spot just east of Rockford along creek, I will saturate that area when I venture back. (as it is ez to get to Spok Airport) Is the reservation a 'downer' spot to live and resale? It is often the case, pretty trashed areas, Wife does not like 'remote', as she is a So CA gal, but does fine within a 10min drive to a small town. She's not a 'shopper', (Living in Singapore cured that habit...) so big city is not important, we don't shop Walmart, but make monthly trips to Costco

North of CdA is possible, especially if there ever becomes a north > West Spokane Bypass... (need a big bridge...) I often go up thru Newport enroute to Ione, WA. I have been focusing south, as I want argarian area, as I'm thinking farm folks seem to be more friendly than loggers (4-H, community events, gardening, Harvest...) I am definately still in 'culture shock' living near PDX, I buddy with folks who wrench, weld, build furniture, houses, barns, feed cows, build pumpkin catapults and bomb neighbors... (farmers) not Starbucks, video games and ESPN. (yuppies) (tho I miss the sports on the tube when living in Spain, BOBCAT (Skidsteer) acrobatic competition, Trials MC, and UK road racing in Mini's)

Yes, our assessment has been the object of our tax increases, we currently have a beautiful 'retreat' home with unrestricted view for many miles (+Mt Hood and Columbia River) in Columbia Gorge National Scenic Area across from Multhomah Falls, (where no land can be split, so sites are limited). We built and designed ourselves, and have less than $150k (including land, well...)into 3500sq ft with lots of stone and tile from europe, and (2) 6 acre pieces with a rental on the adjacent. The assessor really likes the joint. went from $285k to $600k this yr. Our land is ~$300k of that! (we paid $22k, 10 yrs ago) and of course the trashed mobile we rent is assesed at $300k also... Yes we stand to make a haul on a sale, but... I didn't really want to move, just need a cheap place to live. We built home as one of 3 homeschool building projects, and wife laid the stone on fireplace. Kids dug foundation, septic sytem and did wiring and plumbing and woodwork. It has a great feature that I like (a (2000')2 story / daylight garage/ shop, with concrete floor and cars on both levels) + having a $150k basis (reasonable taxes) will not be too possible in the future, and now no employment, no income for next future, and ~35 yrs of retirement ahead. My wife is not keen on losing her view... as can be understood, I just can't swing the $2000/month (1/2 of that taxes), to support her habit I'm really stretching for solutions, even considered donating home to charity so they pay the taxes, OR making it into a 501c3, somehow (we have VERY restrictive zoning due to 'NSA', so no 'churches / guest house'). We donate lots to charities anyway, and have 50% of assets directed that way in our trust, so sending the home that direction would have little effect, except for losing the capital gains exclusion, and the 'line of credit' finance leverage for 'other RE projects'.

All levies have been voted down (as can be expected) but we have a very hungry Mil rate, and of course are taxed 100% of assesed value. The Assessor is graded on what he can haul in, and as expected told us to sell and move if we can't afford it, he even offered to buy the joint

[RodFarlee]

Originally Posted by janb

...The Assessor is graded on what he can haul in, and as expected told us to sell and move if we can't afford it, he even offered to buy the joint

Ouch. But there's one assessor who stands beside his assessment! Sounds like you are expecting to be able to sell it at or above the assessed market value (i.e. that the assessment is fair).

Standing back, big picture: it's not clear to me that property taxes are lower for comparable properties in the area you're looking at on the ID side of the line than on the WA side. The key differences are that ID has a homeowner exemption, but has higher mil rates. There's a "break even" point around roughly $225k or so. For properties below that, ID has lower property taxes, and for properties above that, ID has higher taxes.

As for future property taxes, your guess is as good as mine. Taxpayers in both states are adamantly against property tax increases, but at least Idahoans are willing to back that up by paying both income and sales taxes.

[janb]

I think the assessor has a great job for finding bargains and 'distressed sales' (or creating them )

thanks for the B.E. $$ figure, that is helpful. I plan to split the ~$600k equity into 3 residential props, one Mtn state, and one on each coast. They should all be rented acreage, with potential to split in future, and have a guest house or shop w/ apartment for us to stay when we are in the region. They will need to be self supporting (triple net, NNN) + providing me a reasonable cap rate on investment. This could mitigate the prop tax issues, if I keep them in a reasonable rental market. I will probably keep my primary residence (on paper) in WA or WY (avoiding living anywhere else for over 6 mo straight to keep it legal) and hold the props in my WA LLC's or WA family trust.

I will keep Commercial income producing props in WA (I-5 or I-90) to ease my accounting each April and retain left coast values.

Now for some Prop shopping. I like to scout from Jan - March and buy April - May

Plummer worth looking at?, probably resale / rents would be better in WA (Fairfield and north)

What is ID sales and income tax?
Do they have a high 'threshhold' on taxable income?

Oregon shopping spoiled me a bit, till I started filing 'WA use tax... )

[janb]

Originally Posted by janb

... I plan to split the ~$600k equity into 3 residential props, one Mtn state, and one on each coast. They should all be rented acreage, with potential to split in future, and have a guest house or shop w/ apartment for us to stay when we are in the region. ...

Actually I should delete this previous post, (but can't after this long...) it is not too relevant to 'retirement - relocation', just is a plan 'B' while we are young enough to move around a bit. Obviously, ID would require primary residence to get 'homeowners' exemption, thus Rental props would take a heavier tax burden + it is difficult to get a decent 'cap rate' on a residential rental with very much equity, + a rental would have to be in a pretty decent market to 'cash-flow' (this was part of the idea of 1 hr from airport, tho would also require close proximity to decent employment for renter, contrary to my desire of 'no-stoplights') Plan 'B' would see me moving around a bit for the next 10 yrs, waiting for 59.5 when I can tap 'qualified' $$$. I would need to be doing some 1031 exchanges, (once I found 'nirvana' retirement spot to live) and also some sales of primary residences for exempt capital gains $$ (income). The current 15% CG tax (if you can avoid AMT) and primary residence exemption are a godsend, so unlikely to prevail.

It appears from your info that ID and WA and probably OR will be pretty comparable in overall tax costs, meaning I must bite the tax bullet, or move to WY (Which I think has a 'homeowner exemption' as well, but at least income tax free) you are only taxed on 8% of valuation, but at a different (usually higher) mil rate. WY is tougher to find a moderate climate, and it's current energy boom has been proven to be fickle (cyclical) in the past.

In review;
I will have minimal income (making WA and WY less attractive)
I am a minimal consumer (sales tax of minimal concern, if reasonable)
Property tax is most important in retirement if too disproportionally high, as it is a 'fixed cost'

I want a PNW / MTN home that is low cost / expense, in rural but within 1 hr of an airport / major city. Friendly, with a few trees, moderate climate, (more sun than rain, cold limited to occasional periods of lows in the teens, but sunny during the day) and in a region where 'resale / marketablility' can be had. Thus growing / secure local economy will be key (driving up prices...it's cheaper to 'retire' in a closed down 'mill town')

We will probably relocate once the kids settle down, and will want a mini or real farm within reach of PDX - SEA, their most likely destinations (but who knows at this point, ) Currently I have quite a lot of junk to pack around, so I need to plan this correctly. (I have bulldozers, excavator, dump trucks, farming equip, machine shop, and woodworking shop, plenty of handbuilt / antique furniture; a real 'Jed Clampett' of Beverly Hillbilly fame ), oh, and 26 diesel VW's... + my Bio-diesel still

( I'll reduce my car collection to ~ (4) 50 mpg rigs, no sense in being 'greedy' or waiting for Y3K ) I can also have an auction to get rid of the other stuff, but some if it wii be pretty hard to replace, and took years to find (since I'm so 'cheap' )

[RodFarlee]

JanB, it's apparent that you've put a lot of thought into this! I'm still reading this over, pondering where I might offer any useful comments...

There are some websites which offer comparisons of state taxes...
http://www.retirementliving.com/RLtaxes.html

I agree, Plummer strikes me as an unlikely spot for trouble-free rental income or equity growth.

Idaho sales tax is 6%.

Idaho income tax has a low exemptions, and rapidly graduates up to 7.1% at $5000 and to it's top rate of 7.8% at $20,000. Private pensions are taxed.

With all your "stuff", I can't quite imagine moving everything to, say, WY, then back to WA in a few years to be nearer the kids. Do the Ellensburg or Yakima areas appeal to you? Sure would be easier. On the other hand, you sound plenty energetic, and WY's boom will provide plenty of opportunities to be as busy as you want. It looks like this boom will last.

[rosanielle]

JanB -- you should have posted a NEW inquiry rather than starting one on mine. Thanks a lot, ********.

[janb]

Sorry Rosanille, my inquiry was was similar 'retirement relocation' focused, and I usually learn from a variety of inputs - (tho I have some tax complications, which you had mentioned also, but I didn't see addressed). I feel the following was pretty good info for your requirements, based upon what I know about ID, tho if you are coming from Denver Metro, you might be plenty satisfied with Boise central / north easterly (avoiding the suburbia sprawl) It is a pretty nice 'little' (as compared to Denver) town. (light on forests, but a nice treed downtown, and peacful river Otherwise, look north, including Moscow. (Harrison sounds like a 'must see')

Originally Posted by RodFarlee

If you seek forests and lakes, along with a mild climate, it's North Idaho for you, Rosanille!
Coeur d'Alene, nearby Post Falls, and Sandpoint should top your list.
If these are too busy for your taste, Bonners Ferry or perhaps the little town of Harrison are quieter. (Harrison may have limited restaurants, but you've just got to see it's bike path, the 72-mile Trail of the Coeur d'Alenes!)
McCall may be worth a visit, but has a shorter autumn and more snow in winter, so might not fit your criteria.....

Do a 'guest home visit' and get to know the locals. While your in the area, I'd check out Kettle Falls, WA, (near Colville, but milder climate)

What are your tax concerns? Income, Property, Sales, Business? From the last post, looks like ID has agressive income tax, but relief on property. Colorado ranks in lower 50% for total tax burden, Wyo is among the most favorable. As I mentioned in another post, for retirees, we have some specific concerns at fixed costs looking forward. Each individual situation will dictate best location. (some have pensions, most don't, other rely on 'rental or investment income', others have enough cash to survive) OR has a low threshhold and takes signifiicant $$ out of SS pensions (so my in-laws found coming from CO to OR) ID looks to be similar.

[HotIdahoProperties]

Yes, it can be pretty hot here in the summer. But as for the economy, I think it is the same as always. Downtown has gotten to be kind of a thing of the past, most of the business have move to the orchards, or we have gone more toward the "big box" stores. Wal-Mart, Home Depot have moved in, changing quite a bit. We have recently added a 12 plex theater, a large Safeway, Pier1, Ross, and a Hundai dealership. We have a few new high-end subdivisions that are forming as well. The Lewiston airport has added a Delta connection. As for a forest, people who like to live in a wooded area have been building south of Lewiston in Waha, which is about 20minutes from town. Kendrick has a lot of appeal lately. There has been some new construction there. It's beautiful in the fall. I have not heard of property taxes going crazy in Washington..? I do know that the excise tax has made a lot of people grumpy when selling their homes here. 1.28% tax is imposed on the sale of real property. So if you don't plan on staying, I wouldn't suggest buying in Washington. I live on the Washington side of the river, myself. To me both sides are nice. I hear that the hunting and fishing is better in Idaho, so if you are a sportsman(woman) live in Idaho. If you have a lot of medical needs, and will possibly need assistance, Washington has better benefits. There are pros and cons on each side.

[Pricilla]

Originally Posted by rosanielle

What are good retirement places in Idaho? Tax-friendly. Good restaurants and bike paths. Forest is a must. Water a bonus (lake or river). Mild winters. Rain in spring, no bugs in summer, temperatures above 20 in winter, and long, mild autumns! Looking to relocate in 4 or 5 years, so we have time to check some places out, based upon personal recommendations!

If I were you, I would be purchasing property in Sandpoint. Great restaurants, Bike paths, Forest, Lakes, Rivers (Priest River area and the Great Kootenai River just a little to the north).

It looks like you want Paradise on Earth, LOL, don't you know it doesn't exist....? UNTIL you have come to the Great Northwest Panhandle of Idaho. There is some rain in spring, nothing like Washington, there are some bugs in the summer, (give me 1 example where there are none, I'll move there, LOL), I have only had couple of flies a year in my house in the 6 years I have lived here (I don't even own a fly swatter) no fleas on the animals or in the house, I don't have ants (just because I make sure my property isn't attracting them, I can't remember bugs to speak of). Oh we do get a few of beetle bugs, but they are no more of a nuisance as say, all of your bugs over there (just kidding). LOL. No, not even that bad. Mosquito's come out in the evening, but I live on the Kootenai River,(which is expected). Winter above 20, I don't think so. We get a little cold here (the cold kills most of the bugs due to hatch in the spring), but it IS a dry cold, just like in the summer, it's a dry heat. Very tolerable. The dryness of the climate makes it so much nicer, I breath so much better here, have not had a bronchial attack since I moved here. In the Seattle area it feels a lot colder when it is only in the 30's due to the moisture (you know, it penetrates your bones). Here it doesn't even feel cold until it's REALLY cold, but it doesn't settle in your bones like it does over there, I know, I lived over there all my life and was at the doctors constantly with Chronic Bronchitis and other lung problems). Same in the summer, hot but comfortable, on the coast hot is unbearable, due to the humidity. We don't have much, if any, of that around here. Taxes, well I bet Idaho can beat anything Washington has to offer, besides having less than half the sales tax here. Home prices, buy now. Everyone wants to move to the Idaho Panhandle. The most beautiful Panhandle in the U.S. But really, I moved here 6 years ago, bought a house that I would never, ever have been able to afford in Washington. It depends on where you buy re: property taxes. In Boundary County they are very reasonable. A lot less than a comparable property say in the Colville, WA area and incredibly less than the Spokane area. Bonners Ferry is only 30 minutes to Sandpoint and the property taxes are considerably less in Boundary County versus Bonner County where Sandpoint is (property value is quite a bit more in Bonner County than Boundary County). You could get a mansion here for a fraction of the cost that it would be over there. Since Sandpoint is quite the tourist attraction (Schweitzer Mountain Ski Resort) with lots of amenities (as it well deserves) is a bit more in $$. But it has everything you are dreaming of. Except for winter temps of only 20 degrees....LOL. Check it out a bit more, but like I said, I'd be buying now. If you wait 4 or 5 years, you might just be out of luck. The real estate market has gone up out of this world in the 6 years I have lived here in this area. No one can afford to wait anymore. I think this area is just about as close to Paradise as anyone could ever get.

Also, check out the Idaho Homeowner laws/perks for Veterans, Disabled, retired, etc. From what I understand this state has great discounts for veterans, disabled, etc. I know of 3 families that are retiring here from Washington because of all the bennies.... I think there is even a no pay property tax exemption? or way discounted property tax for veterans. One of the reasons Idaho is SO popular for retirement persons.

Best wishes,

Pricilla in Bonners Ferry, Idaho

[shirlhubbs]

Central Idaho taxes are not bad.....I have 21.6 acres in New Meadows (10 miles north of McCall) 2b, 1bath home with a 22'x40' machine shed and my 2006 taxes was $420.12.