Think hard before you "escape." (homes, art)

[mistyriverranch]

Originally Posted by Tiffany76

Never had power go out!! BULL... The Ice Storm that happend here in i believe 1996. Power was out for days, power lines down, trees fell. It was a mess.

When the he!! did you live in Post Falls! My Mom lives there and they have seen more then a foot of snow on the ground.

Your from Idaho? Then you have seen a deer or elk in the back of someones pickup. Especially, if your from North Idaho. That is where P.F. is located.
It's like a major sport here.

Hard to believe you have ever put a foot over here, since you have never seen any of these things. LMFAO

We've never had our power go out.



We live off the grid on solar power. We have lost our phone service though.

[Huckleberry3911948]

good post. everybody that leaves california must understand what "1 way" means.

[Tiffany76]

Originally Posted by Sage of Sagle

Tiffany76...keep it civil. You can disagree with someone without needing to be rude or condescending.

Okay, maybe i went a wee over the top in all my post. But i loved my town and it is a mess. I also don't like when people say things that are untrue.

I have no issues with people from Cali. My Husband is from there as well as my very Best Friend. The difference! Is they loved the place for what it was.
I hate when people try to change everything to better suit their life.
If you don't want small town living. Don't move to a small town, then moan and groan.

Before you move to Idaho, understand that it is a "Right to work State".
There are problems there that need to be delt with. But changing something into what you left is just wrong. Call it progress if you want.
Some of us love small places, thats why we live there. We want it just the way it is. destroying the land, that has wildlife and trees. It's just not right.

[Sandpointian]

Let's eliminate the labels, shall we? No residents from a given state have corned the market on greed and environmental destruction. At the same time, no no state can lay claim from having residents that are all tree huggers. In the America that I once knew, we valued individuals and taught our youth not to judge a book by its cover.

I know local Idahoans who cannot wait to sell their farmland to the highest bidder or who relish the loophole in their zoning to strip trees and built on a mountain that used to be claimed by all (Mr. Erickson on Canfield Mountain). And I know new inmigrants who will plow ahead with plans regardless of the impact on the local community (Ms. Kirk-Hughes in Harrison). And the reverse is true: locals who preserve land at great financial sacrifice and inmigrants who cut through the local politics to do teh right thing without call for fanfare. We got em all up here!

Every American has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in a manner that they see fit. Where there is conflict there are laws and courts. We cannot legislate kindness, friendliness, or taste, although most of us can use periodic refreshers on each. What we can do, however, is try to create communities that are healthy and with enough space to allow for a wide variety of pursuits and interpretations. officials and companies and drop the negative and wholesale labeling of people based on place of birth, residence, color, creed, etc.

[pimit2]

Originally Posted by Sandpointian

Let's eliminate the labels, shall we? No residents from a given state have corned the market on greed and environmental destruction. At the same time, no no state can lay claim from having residents that are all tree huggers. In the America that I once knew, we valued individuals and taught our youth not to judge a book by its cover.

I know local Idahoans who cannot wait to sell their farmland to the highest bidder or who relish the loophole in their zoning to strip trees and built on a mountain that used to be claimed by all (Mr. Erickson on Canfield Mountain). And I know new inmigrants who will plow ahead with plans regardless of the impact on the local community (Ms. Kirk-Hughes in Harrison). And the reverse is true: locals who preserve land at great financial sacrifice and inmigrants who cut through the local politics to do teh right thing without call for fanfare. We got em all up here!

Every American has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in a manner that they see fit. Where there is conflict there are laws and courts. We cannot legislate kindness, friendliness, or taste, although most of us can use periodic refreshers on each. What we can do, however, is try to create communities that are healthy and with enough space to allow for a wide variety of pursuits and interpretations. officials and companies and drop the negative and wholesale labeling of people based on place of birth, residence, color, creed, etc.

Well said, Sandpointian. When it comes to people, generalities are unfair and, most often, inaccurate. Branding is for cattle, not for Californians or any other relocators to this state.


pimit2 (Bob)

[DessertRat]

Good points to think about, as I'm also moving from a major metro area--the New York City area, to the West--maybe Idaho, maybe Wyoming, maybe Utah, maybe Nevada--and in some ways, it's an "escape":

Originally Posted by WarningVoice

Californians sell their high priced homes and move to rural Idaho.

Hmm . . . well, one reason I want to move out West is because I'm in my 40s and still renting. My wife and I just can't afford to buy a house in this area--even something crappy in a bad neighborhood is 450k. We can't afford that and we'd like to own a place instead of throwing our money away.

What initially draws them are the very things that they attempt to change within months of arrival.

The main things drawing me to the West are: (1) natural areas that I love, (2) affordability, (3) lack of inescapable crowds . . . I don't think I'm going to want to change those things.

Yes, you can move here and live off the difference between what you received and the price of your new house. No house payment! Whooppeee! Now what you going to do? Work? Maybe.

That's obviously not me. At the moment I'm unemployed. I could look for a full-time job here, but I really don't like living here any longer (I really only moved here to try to work in the arts & entertainment industries and that never panned out very well . . . I should have went to the West instead way back when). So I'm trying to find a job out West instead so I can move there.

House prices are coming down, no work,

Maybe that's why I'm having a problem finding work out West.

Retire? Great!

I wish. I've got to get started first.

Nothing like dealing with winters.

I actually like winters. What I don't care for is heat. I usually wish I was rich enough to "summer" in Argentina or Chile (because it's winter there then).

The gas prices will eat through your savings all that much faster.

Well, gas prices are pretty bad in many places. I still like to do road trips.

Living in a small town can be painful. You are an outsider and will remain that way for a long time.

I've never felt like an "insider" really. I'm too odd for that I guess. So I'm used to being an outsider. I'm not expecting that to change, although there's no way that since I was last there, the people out West turned more unfriendly than strangers in the NYC area.

You must get your groceries before the town shuts down at 6 PM.

Whenever I have to go to a grocery store so that it's not crowded is a good time for me.

Want a special treat? Sorry, you have to drive for an hour to find a Baskin-Robbins.

I like driving, especially when I don't have to go a hundred miles in stop/go traffic with a maximum speed of 8 mph, and especially with the scenery in the West . . . one career I'm contemplating is truckdriving, actually.

Like your computer? Some places will never have DSL or Cable.

You can get high-speed Internet through DirecTV, and you can use DirecTV anywhere, as long as you're not right against a southern mountain or close, impenetrable southern-trees. It's satellite.

You can go for miles and your cell phone is worthless.

God, that sounds like heaven. I hate cell phones. Phones in general actually. Can I make it so I have a good excuse for not having phone contact period?

Gridlock has come to the towns that used to have fewer than a dozen stoplights.

Compared to the metro New York City area, nowhere in Idaho (or Wyoming, Utah, Nevada, etc.) has "gridlock" as I use that term. Gridlock is 150 miles on I-95 in Connecticut of bumper to bumper traffic, which is what I had, and until about 9:00 p.m., the last time I tried to drive to Boston. You'd need a 60-mile radius population of 50 million to have what I consider gridlock. Heck, when I was last in LA (a couple years ago) I couldn't believe how light the traffic seemed compared to here.

Kids into soccer? Better do some hard research because tiny towns don't have extensive sports programs. Want to raise your kids in a rural, safe place. Well, the meth labs beat you here.

No kids and I don't really want any. I also don't think that there's anywhere in the world without violence.

Want to see beautiful animals? Nothing like having a deer come through your windshield while driving home one night.

Just as easy to get (and black bears to boot) that in the metro NYC area, believe it or not. It's just that here you get it in ridiculous traffic.

If you are an animal lover, hunting season will be a thrill a minute for you as those magnificent animals are driven through town, dead in the back of a hunter's pick-up so all his buddies can marvel.

I'm an animal lover who is also in favor of hunting . . . maybe that's contradictory, but it doesn't seem like it to me.

What about all those beautiful migrating birds? They are going to be blamed for bird flu quarantines some day. Maybe you can get a job killing Canadian Geese and the others that fly into town.

Do you have a number for that? I need work.

Power outages during winter - what you gonna do?

Have a candle party!

Wood stove, fire wood cutting, need a pick-up, chainsaw.

The apartment I've been in for awhile frequently has little to no heat, but we don't have a wood burning stove or fireplace to help us out. You just have to dress like you're going to go outside. The landlord has "tried to fix" the heater about 15 times, but if it ever does any good, it's usually short-lived.

Have you ever had to pay to have someone shovel the rain off your roof?

Shovel the rain off my roof???

Snow gets really heavy when it accumulates.

At least snow doesn't leak into the apartment. It used to rain inside my apartment . . . I finally got the landlord to fix that alright, but it took a couple years. The previous apartment I lived in was in the basement and ended up with a foot of water in it at one point. Can't be worse than that . . . how are you guys on roaches, by the way? Last summer, I was killing up to 14 of them per day. It's not as bad now, but I still can't get rid of them.

I've seen people from out of town buy up "cheap land" and develop it . . . stopped construction, lawsuits and broken dreams and wallets.

I've got to be able to worry about being able to buy anything first.

Make a list of all the things you enjoy and love in life

My wife, national parks, hiking, moutains, an ability to get away from crowds, movies (at home), music (ditto--I can't take the crowds at concerts), books, my musical equipment, art supplies, etc. . . . (and re others shopping comments, I've done almost all my shopping online for awhile now anyway . . .only here, because of my apartment, I have to rent a P.O. box in Manhattan and take the subway to get my mail; it gets stolen otherwise. It would be nice to actually have a mailbox at home)

Don't ever underestimate how important a family can be when times are tough.

My family is all in South Florida. No way I'm moving back there . . . it's way WAY too hot for me . . . also it's way too flat for me. Not a lot of hiking, and most of it looks identical--lots of Australian Pines and scrub forest on sandy to swampy flat ground. Summer usually ends on February 4 at 12:00 a.m. and begins on February 4 at 4:00 a.m. My wife's family are all at least 12-13,000 miles away in Africa, India, etc. So we're used to being away from family. I've lived in the metro NYC area for 12 years now. Know how many friends we have in this area? 0. Seriously, 0. It can't be worse than that, even if it doesn't get better. I've found the people here extremely unfriendly, and even people I used to know elsewhere who also moved here just flat-out ignored me once they moved here. People get kinda cutthroat competitive here.

We know where we can buy a $10,000 piece of property

Come clean. Where is it? What's the acreage?

[Morgaine]

Originally Posted by WarningVoice

I've seen it before. Californians sell their high priced homes and move to rural Idaho. What initially draws them are the very things that they attempt to change within months of arrival. That is why they are the source of much hatred and the butt of many jokes.

Yes, you can move here and live off the difference between what you received and the price of your new house. No house payment! Whooppeee! Now what you going to do? Work? Maybe. Maybe just use up every penny in your bank account. Seen it before. House prices are coming down, no work, used up all their savings and leave town with their tail between their legs - going back to California with nothing.

Retire? Great! Nothing like dealing with winters. Escape and snowbird? Sure. The gas prices will eat through your savings all that much faster. Don't forget the expense of winterizing your house so the pipes don't burst while you are gone. Nothing like having two houses or a motorhome losing value as your savings are eaten up.

Living in a small town can be painful. You are an outsider and will remain that way for a long time. Joining groups, glad handing the locals will not change it. You must get your groceries before the town shuts down at 6 PM. Want a special treat? Sorry, you have to drive for an hour to find a Baskin-Robbins.

Like your computer? Some places will never have DSL or Cable. You can go for miles and your cell phone is worthless. If you want to move to a city in Idaho, you may as well just stay in Santa Clara or San Jose. Gridlock has come to the towns that used to have fewer than a dozen stoplights.

Kids into soccer? Better do some hard research because tiny towns don't have extensive sports programs.

Want to raise your kids in a rural, safe place. Well, the meth labs beat you here. Nothing bad ever happens in rural settings? Think again. We just had Duncan murder three people, steal two children and murder one of them.

Want to see beautiful animals? Nothing like having a deer come through your windshield while driving home one night. If you are an animal lover, hunting season will be a thrill a minute for you as those magnificent animals are driven through town, dead in the back of a hunter's pick-up so all his buddies can marvel.

What about all those beautiful migrating birds? They are going to be blamed for bird flu quarantines some day. Maybe you can get a job killing Canadian Geese and the others that fly into town.

Power outages during winter - what you gonna do? Wood stove, fire wood cutting, need a pick-up, chainsaw. Speaking of winter - snowblower, plow... Or a great big pile of money to pay for these services. Have you ever had to pay to have someone shovel the rain off your roof? Snow gets really heavy when it accumulates.

I've seen people from out of town buy up "cheap land" and develop it. Sold $200,000 homes to Californians on the side of the hill with a view. Trouble is none of the people bothered to ask locals if it was a known slide zone. It was, but nobody bothered to share that info with them either. Now there is stopped construction, lawsuits and broken dreams and wallets.

Am I just being negative to keep people from moving to Idaho? No. I am trying to do the exact opposite of what people who want your money are doing.

I was born in the Pacific Northwest, but lived in California for most of my life. When I returned to my roots, there were many hard lessons that needed to be learned. I don't want anyone's dream to be a nightmare because not enough thought went into a major decision and move. I have seen it happen over and over and over because people were so busy looking back at what they thought there were escaping that they didn't look at what there were about to run in to.

Make a list of all the things you enjoy and love in life, then make sure they are waiting for you before you move. Don't ever underestimate how important a family can be when times are tough.

We just sold a piece of property bought in 1993 for $8,000 and sold for $175,000 to somene who thinks they are going to make a big profit off of someone outside our area. We know where we can buy a $10,000 piece of property and live quite happily ever after while someone struggles to make the payments on property that will be worth less in a very short period of time.

Please, look before you leap. Sometimes there is a pitchfork in that pile of hay you think will cushion your landing. I would have to make $51,000 a year now to equal what I made in California in 1977. I am making bunches and bunches less. Please, please think hard and come prepared before you make a life altering decision. Greed is not pretty and it is getting ugly up here. Don't be part of the group paying a heavy price for a failed dream.

I don't want unhappy neighbors struggling to survive. It doesn't always happen to the other guy. Sometimes it happens to you.

At first I found your comment disheartening, but that is only because you are just saying what most people don't have the guts to say.
I grew up in Santa Clara California, and when my family and I moved here, to escape, all those things you mention happened, but we survived.
I have been in north Idaho for 5 years now, and love it! I don't pretend that there are not inconveniences and hardships, that's what gives us drive. I don't drive a Hummer, mercilessly flaunt my $. I live modestly on a $7 an hour job. I don't expect to make this place into the place I left behind. I respect the locals, and love the area.
This place is a blessing, and those who have grown up here hate it mostly, the kids here do too, because it offers very little to them and I find that sad.
The reasons why the escapees find it to terrific are the very reasons the rooted families detest being here. I am not trying to change this place, it's almost perfect...if I could just get over carcasses of deer and elk hanging from trees all winter. I wish newcomers the best of luck here, if they survive the first winter, they may end up staying forever.

[Sandpointian]

Warning Voice, I think your post is a good for one for ANYONE moving outside of their element with rose-colored glasses. Some comments...

1) Hatred and jealously goes hand in hand. Rural folks don't automatically like city slickers. Small town folks do not automatically like big city folks, etc. It is less California than the economy/working life in which they come from. A 21 year old DotCom millionaire can annoy and fascinate most of us with a pulse. But goodness and community are always there for the long-term folks who have proved their mettle.

2) The folks that cannot adjust--this is nothing new. Imgaine Hawaii: they seem these fokls from all over the US come and leave with a few years. Again, the person who cannot adjust is simply someone comign from a different working/living experience. Hell, I know friends from Boise who are helpless in the country!

3) Winters. Those who come from temperate/desert climates are bound to have the toughest adjustments. Those from four season territory will have the most problems. I once lived in NYC, when big snows came, New Yorkers were wholly incompetent on what to do. WHy? Because most are not native to Manhattan and they are from Manhattan, which is about cabs and the subway and jogs in central Park...But the adjustments are there and real.

4) Living in a small town is tough for outsiders, any outsiders. Some communities, like Sandpoint, are very open. Others, and there are many, are sealed shut. This is universal and not about ice cream runs!

5) Computers & connectivity: Well, now the issue becomes modern vs. last generation, save for farmers. Some places in Idaho are well connected (e.g. Boise and CDA, Sandpoint less so), many are not. It is largely about economies of scale. I straddle the generations. But then again I live in Sandpoint where connectivity is decent (although it can be better).

6) Sports programs. Again it is about economics. Although soccer happens to be the most economical sport around! Only in America has it become the sport of the rich! Note: I don;t play soccer, but it seems like a great sport.

7) Crime. No place is immune...even Japan...

8) Animals and hunting: Respect rules the roost. Yes, there is the occasional redneck, but most hunters I know have great respect for their prey.

9) Wildlife: Sorry, I love the migrating geese although their poop moderates that...

10) Power outages? Lots of options including generators: Wood stove, fire wood cutting, need a pick-up, chainsaw...easy. Speaking of winter - snowblower, plow...big deal. shovelling the roof? Goes with the territory. If an outsider is too lazy, then great, more money for our excellent handymen.

11) out of town buy up "cheap land" and develop it....more of an issue of naivete...worldwide

12) Family: absolutely right on.

13) Making profit on land sales: 2004-2005 was all about screwing the outsider. But when done on masse it was the local natives who screwed their own home. The overbuilding in CDA was led by local officials and local developers...ho I am sure now live in Calfiornia...sad...

[north idaho fella]

im in post falls idaho its great walmarts right up the road spokane right down the next and coeur d alenes up the other way and the rivers south and the lakealso its got all the stores youll evr need my only problem is i have two homes and need to sell one or the other so i can feed my kids and survive and make a living being a small home builde here in great idaho , oh yea and lets not forget you have the buetifull mtns of montana east not far and seattle and portland 4 to 6 hrs away its centrally located . [MOD CUT: Advertising not allowed]

[north idaho fella]

tiffany maybe you should look at the locals who are million aires buildingthat junk on the prairie it seem if i recall its the local richy riches doing all the carving on north idaho such as hagadone and a few other well offs from the area im personally from montana and it always seems all the local problems are blamed on californians and i dont feel its true even in montanan theyd always cry the californians are to blame for the carving out of the so called bueitfull lanscape and the way of life in reality sure a few move here but not enought o change yr safe life style in idaho